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  #21  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:24 AM
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Mature or not, I think the decision to leave an ensign in charge of the bridge on his first mission during a crisis seems like a bad command decision when there must other, senior, more experienced officers who would have been better suited, even if you had to leave Chekov in charge temporarily while a senior officer was summoned. It didn't inspire me to view Kirk as a competent commander at all. I wouldn't have been so concerned if Uhura had been left in charge - at least she had proven her command aptitude sufficiently to be promoted to Lieutenant even if she is only a year older than NuChekov!
Well he placed junior officer in temp charge more than once during TOS, why not this film? A Captain has the right to place anyone in temporary command they choose.

I'm with you he could have made a better choice of a more qualified, or seasoned officer quite easily.
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  #22  
Old 11-03-2009, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Pauln6 View Post
Mature or not, I think the decision to leave an ensign in charge of the bridge on his first mission during a crisis seems like a bad command decision when there must other, senior, more experienced officers who would have been better suited, even if you had to leave Chekov in charge temporarily while a senior officer was summoned. It didn't inspire me to view Kirk as a competent commander at all. I wouldn't have been so concerned if Uhura had been left in charge - at least she had proven her command aptitude sufficiently to be promoted to Lieutenant even if she is only a year older than NuChekov!
At that moment, Uhura is a cadet while Chekov is an Ensign.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Pauln6 View Post
Mature or not, I think the decision to leave an ensign in charge of the bridge on his first mission during a crisis seems like a bad command decision when there must other, senior, more experienced officers who would have been better suited, even if you had to leave Chekov in charge temporarily while a senior officer was summoned. It didn't inspire me to view Kirk as a competent commander at all. I wouldn't have been so concerned if Uhura had been left in charge - at least she had proven her command aptitude sufficiently to be promoted to Lieutenant even if she is only a year older than NuChekov!
That said, rank and age does not equal ability to carry out the job either.

If we skip to TNG and 'Disaster', Troi ended up the ranking officer on the ship that was in a position to command during an emergency when the Captain and First Officer were presummed incapacitated.

However, she also had no experience of making command decisions because that was not what she had been trained in.

So if we assume that Chekov has an interest in the Command side of the service (which we can loosely infer from the Command Gold) then he may actually already have undertaken some training for certain situations that might arise.
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  #24  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:44 AM
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Chekov was more a function of getting the crew together for the new film. But at least he had completed Starfleet acadamy, probably because he graduated from high school at a young age due to his abilities. Wesley Crusher was just a ridiculous idea. In general the idea that teenagers would be given that kind of responsibility is just completely silly. Lives are at stake, there would certainly be guidelines and minimal requirements for those interested in Starfleet. Age would certainly be one of them.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:51 AM
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Age does not imply any skills, age just means that we slowly rot.
Today we rely heavily on seniority schemes. Work long enough and you will make more money / be promoted. Once you got your nice position, you can relax as you won't lose it unless you seriously mess up.

Trek on the other hand is about finding the best people. If the best person for the job is 17, so be it. It's not like he wasn't seriously tested in the Academy.

By the way, asian societies rely stronger in meritocratic than on seniority patterns, continuing tests for people in high ranking position are not unusual there.
I bet that this will make them more productive (compared to Europe/Northamerica) in the long-run.
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  #26  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:55 AM
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Things like impulse control are not hard wired into teenagers, there are reasons for age requirements in today's world. That would certainly still be true in the future as well. Probably even more true. The Federation is made up of many, many member worlds with a huge talent pool to draw from. 17 year olds would have to wait their turn. This notion of teenagers on the bridge never rang true to me. Picard would have gotten court marshaled if this was real.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:01 AM
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On the other hand, since exposure to other races which would then mature at different rates would be a consequence, perhaps it also created a shift in what measures are used to define a person's ability to to do the job.

Where a (Earth year) one year old Ocampan can serve alongside a 60+ (Earth year) old Vulcan, then age becomes meaningless.

All that's left, is ability.

Less understandanle to us as humans today, but in the future.......
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  #28  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:02 AM
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On the other hand, since exposure to other races which would then mature at different rates would be a consequence, perhaps it also created a shift in what measures are used to define a person's ability to to do the job.

Where a (Earth year) one year old Ocampan can serve alongside a 60+ (Earth year) old Vulcan, then age becomes meaningless.

All that's left, is ability.

Less understandanle to us as humans today, but in the future.......
There would certainly be guidelines that take the different races and rates of aging into account , but that's a far cry from just abandoning guidelines altogether.
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  #29  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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Experience is really more of the icing on the cake. If I have any objection of putting Chekov in charge it's not because of his lack of experience, although that might contribute to it, but rather that thus far he might not have demonstrated to me that he can command the ship.

That being said, strictly speaking most ensigns are at the very least minimally qualified to command a ship by the end of their very first year or two of service. That is part of being qualified as a deck officer. It's a required qualification for unrestricted line officers to be able to serve as the officer of the deck. The most basic qualification of command is to be able to drive it. Now keep in mind that this is a description of today's navy where midshipmen generally don't get the opportunity to do the kind of simulations that we see on Star Trek.

It is not always the case that a more senior officer is qualified to command a ship. This is particularly true in naval aviation. All carrier captains are required to be aviators, however because of the nature of the aviation career path, a navy aviator with the rank of commander with 15 years under his or her belt is generally not qualified to command a ship compared to a surface warfare officer with the rank of LT(JG). Aviators aspiring to become carrier commands must go back to get the deck qualifications that all surface warfare officers get back when they were ensigns.

Experience without context can be quite misleading. When being considered for promotion to captain, an officer that has had 10 years more experience but has been repeatedly passed over for promotions on numerous occasions is probably not a particularly good pick compared to someone with considerably less experience but has been promoted each time they have come up for one.
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  #30  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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The best pilot in the world might be a 10 year old kid, should he be on the bridge? Where does that end?
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