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  #21  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:30 AM
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Unfortunately, because the idea was never touched upon again--nor even explained--it remains just some kind of funny gesture that Guinan did.

At the time "Q Who?" was written, it was not established exactly who or what Guinan was--the term "El-Aurian" wasn't coined until much later. For all intents and purposes, Guinan may have been meant to be a superbeing similar to Q, but after her people were later firmly established as a race of empathic listeners, it makes the idea of Guinan being able to truly ward off someone like Q now very unlikely, IMO.
I agree, but as much "retro-explaination" that happens in Trek, suprised they haven't tried to "explain" this.
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  #22  
Old 11-06-2009, 09:30 AM
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Unfortunately, because the idea was never touched upon again--nor even explained--it remains just some kind of funny gesture that Guinan did.

At the time "Q Who?" was written, it was not established exactly who or what Guinan was--the term "El-Aurian" wasn't coined until much later. For all intents and purposes, Guinan may have been meant to be a superbeing similar to Q, but after her people were later firmly established as a race of empathic listeners, it makes the idea of Guinan being able to truly ward off someone like Q now very unlikely, IMO.
I agree with that. Also the fact that her people were not able to defend themselves against the Borg is something that can't be disregarded either.
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  #23  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:04 AM
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I agree with that. Also the fact that her people were not able to defend themselves against the Borg is something that can't be disregarded either.
Yep. Which makes Guinan's defensive posture against Q even all the more pointless--but even a cornered mouse won't go down without a fight, despite having zero chance of winning...
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:19 AM
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Yep. Which makes Guinan's defensive posture against Q even all the more pointless--but even a cornered mouse won't go down without a fight, despite having zero chance of winning...
It's difficult to sort out, one of the reasons why that scene sticks out in my mind the way it does. I suppose there are several ways to look at it, and all are equally valid.
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  #25  
Old 11-08-2009, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
Unfortunately, because the idea was never touched upon again--nor even explained--it remains just some kind of funny gesture that Guinan did.

At the time "Q Who?" was written, it was not established exactly who or what Guinan was--the term "El-Aurian" wasn't coined until much later. For all intents and purposes, Guinan may have been meant to be a superbeing similar to Q, but after her people were later firmly established as a race of empathic listeners, it makes the idea of Guinan being able to truly ward off someone like Q now very unlikely, IMO.
Precisely. Looking back it seems that - in a very loose way - that may have have been what they were hinting at in the very earliest Guinan/Q encounters.

Since she never did anything like that move ever again, it seems likely they moved away from that very quickly.

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I agree, but as much "retro-explaination" that happens in Trek, suprised they haven't tried to "explain" this.
It may be just as well, really. Sometimes the explanations are not satisfactory either!

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I agree with that. Also the fact that her people were not able to defend themselves against the Borg is something that can't be disregarded either.
As is the fact that the El-Aurians were known to be refugees to Starfleet and close enough to travel to Federation Space, yet apparently they said nothing to Starfleet about the fact it was the Borg who made them refugees!

In 'Q Who' Guinan introduces them as brand new.

So, why would the El-Aurian's keep the knowledge of the Borg secret? And if El-Aurian's are sufficiently close enough to Federation Space, why did it take 80 years for the next encounter?

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Yep. Which makes Guinan's defensive posture against Q even all the more pointless--but even a cornered mouse won't go down without a fight, despite having zero chance of winning...
Maybe just a natural physical response

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It's difficult to sort out, one of the reasons why that scene sticks out in my mind the way it does. I suppose there are several ways to look at it, and all are equally valid.
Indeed!
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  #26  
Old 11-08-2009, 10:48 AM
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Q-opposing-Guinan has nothing to do with the Nexus-Guinan who fled from the Borg eighty years earlier.
I think we see the limits of continuity here or in other terms that some things are only true in the very moment they happen.
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  #27  
Old 11-08-2009, 10:56 AM
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Is not Q-opposing Guinan the same Guinan, and the Nexus Guinan the part of everyone that the Nexus keeps?

While the 'Q Who' episode can be written off to a conceptual change, the Guinan/Borg mis-match is simply a case of not taking into account prior knowledge.
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  #28  
Old 11-08-2009, 11:14 AM
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Sorry, with NexusGuinan I meant the Guinan in GEN in general.
I guess the writers did simply not think too much about the Borg, they remembered from "Q Who?" that Guinan's people were attacked by the Borg but they did not consider the implications of survivors who warn others of the Borg or the seemingly more powerful Guinan in "Q Who".
As the Borg appear only in dialogue, I think it is an excusable error.
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  #29  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:02 PM
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On the other hand, if Guinan's people did warn the Federation of the existence of the Borg as far back as the 2290s, it would explain how the Hansen family would be out there in the 2350s hunting for the Borg...
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  #30  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:06 PM
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Well, the Hansen's are another anomaly (or rather, subsequent stories make TNG anomalous) because clearly the belief propagated in 'Q Who' and 'Best of Both Worlds' that that was first official contact is bogus.

Starfleet had to have known about them earlier in those scenarios (despite the supposed distance) - which just muddies the waters of an established story simply to justify Seven's age.
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