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  #21  
Old 10-18-2009, 03:06 AM
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^^^
Agreed. That probably brings up the issue of people having personal canon--what's official to them--which inevitably causes problems in discussions about official canon. I remember a particularly heated debate between two posters on another Trek site about Commander Martin Madden--one insisted that he was officially Picard's new XO because he was in a deleted scene, another insisted that he wasn't. I think their debate ran for several pages and ended with one of them being banned or suspended by a moderator...
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  #22  
Old 10-18-2009, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
^^^
Agreed. That probably brings up the issue of people having personal canon--what's official to them--which inevitably causes problems in discussions about official canon. I remember a particularly heated debate between two posters on another Trek site about Commander Martin Madden--one insisted that he was officially Picard's new XO because he was in a deleted scene, another insisted that he wasn't. I think their debate ran for several pages and ended with one of them being banned or suspended by a moderator...
xD
While amusing, that's also the kind of incident that leads to us 'fans' getting a bad name

'Personal canon' can be a fine idea. In my 'personal canon', the Enterprise didn't reach the centre of the galaxy in Star Trek V; rather, it went to 'the centre of the known galaxy', an area roughly in between Federation, Klingon and Romulan space. A massive plasma anomaly that'd later be known as 'the Badlands'. 100% pure fan-nonsense, but it resolves some fairly hearty 'canon issues'.
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  #23  
Old 10-18-2009, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
^^^
Agreed. That probably brings up the issue of people having personal canon--what's official to them--which inevitably causes problems in discussions about official canon. I remember a particularly heated debate between two posters on another Trek site about Commander Martin Madden--one insisted that he was officially Picard's new XO because he was in a deleted scene, another insisted that he wasn't. I think their debate ran for several pages and ended with one of them being banned or suspended by a moderator...
Indeed a ridiculous debate. If there had been another TNG movie, the producers would have had the luxury to either take Madden as new first officer or to take another character.
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  #24  
Old 10-18-2009, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
^^^
Agreed. That probably brings up the issue of people having personal canon--what's official to them--which inevitably causes problems in discussions about official canon. I remember a particularly heated debate between two posters on another Trek site about Commander Martin Madden--one insisted that he was officially Picard's new XO because he was in a deleted scene, another insisted that he wasn't. I think their debate ran for several pages and ended with one of them being banned or suspended by a moderator...
Yes, in theory that's when it gets out of hand but I have a feeling I've (sometimes) inadvertantly been involved in chats like that as well. Oops!! . There is, of course, a time when it all goes too far though.
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Old 10-19-2009, 04:49 AM
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I agree deleted scens are not canon. I take them like novels, a nice "what if?"
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  #26  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:53 AM
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Not to start a Trek vs. Wars debate, but I love the way that Lucas includes everything in the Star Wars canon (even if it is in different levels). Even deleted scenes are canon in the Star Wars universe. For whatever reason, Trek canon has always been kinda flawed IMO. This is the only aspect where I prefer one over the other.
Lucas contradicts himself and personally, I'd edit out about half an hour of the third film to retain some of the mystery in the sequels and to wipe Padme's pointless and childishly cliched death from canon history books.
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  #27  
Old 10-26-2009, 05:58 AM
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Lucas contradicts himself and personally, I'd edit out about half an hour of the third film to retain some of the mystery in the sequels and to wipe Padme's pointless and childishly cliched death from canon history books.
Why do you need the mystery? You already know how it goes.
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  #28  
Old 10-26-2009, 06:08 AM
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Lucas contradicts himself and personally, I'd edit out about half an hour of the third film to retain some of the mystery in the sequels and to wipe Padme's pointless and childishly cliched death from canon history books.
I agree 'losing the will to live' was kinda 'ugh!' but she had to die in some way - we already knew she was dead from the start of A New Hope.

Since she was onscreen all the rest of the trilogy her death had to be shown onscreen - even in it's form.
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  #29  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:06 AM
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Padme's death was a case of Lucas not knowing when to stop. It was good enough that she had been struck a fatal blow by Vader's force-choke, but having her recover only to die by losing the will to live was very melodramatic, IMO.

Sometimes ya gotta "keep it simple, stupid!"
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2009, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
Padme's death was a case of Lucas not knowing when to stop. It was good enough that she had been struck a fatal blow by Vader's force-choke, but having her recover only to die by losing the will to live was very melodramatic, IMO.

Sometimes ya gotta "keep it simple, stupid!"
Yes, I was expecting that the 'choke' would be the end of it and the babies would follow while she was in a coma or something - then have her die that way.

But, you know, just have to live with it now!

Vader's final 'NOOOOOOOOO' also skirted high melodrama as well.
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