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  #11  
Old 10-17-2009, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jla1987 View Post
Not to start a Trek vs. Wars debate, but I love the way that Lucas includes everything in the Star Wars canon (even if it is in different levels). Even deleted scenes are canon in the Star Wars universe. For whatever reason, Trek canon has always been kinda flawed IMO. This is the only aspect where I prefer one over the other.
Star Trek canon was supposed to be really simple--if it's onscreen, it's canon. If it's not onscreen, it isn't.

The only real problem with Trek canon was with TAS in which Roddenberry reportedly declared non-canon after a falling out with the animation studio. That didn't stop writers who were fans of TAS from sneaking in a lot of hidden references here and there (Kirk's middle name "Tiberius" was first mentioned in TAS, so was the region of Vulcan known as "the Forge", as well as the names of some planets and stars). Given that there are so many references to TAS in subsequent Trek productions--as well as the recent release of the series on DVD--I wouldn't be surprised if TAS is eventually made canon again one day as the "fourth year" of Kirk's mission.

IMO, the whole issue of canon is one that fans have blown way out of proportion, often confusing it with continuity, which is just how well things fits together.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2009, 08:04 AM
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IMO, the whole issue of canon is one that fans have blown way out of proportion, often confusing it with continuity, which is just how well things fits together.
Quite true. It just seems to be a problem that Star Wars has less of.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2009, 08:04 AM
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Except for all the fanboys who still think Boba Fett is still alive because of the Dark Horse comics.....ugh.
That's when you get into the "Expanded Universe" canon.

As another pointed out earlier, there are a few levels of canon/history within the Star Wars universe.

Official canon: These are the movies (including deleted scenes) and the Star Wars Radio Dramas from the 80's.

Novel canon: Extra events that occured within the movie based novels.

Expanded Universe: This includes the follow up novels, all the novels and comics that encompass the Old Republic up to the New Jedi Order, video games (Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is the first "Wars" game to be considered "official canon"). Expanded universe canon is authorized, but not endorsed, by George Lucas. As far as Lucas is concerned, the saga ended with Return of the Jedi....therefore, as far as Lucas is concerned, Fett is dead.

But all the "fanboy" dreaming of Fett being alive is no different from all the Trek fanboys who somehow dreamed up that Chekov was actually aboard the Enterprise when Khan made his historic visit.
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Old 10-17-2009, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
That's when you get into the "Expanded Universe" canon.

As another pointed out earlier, there are several levels of canon/history within the Star Wars universe.

Official canon: These are the movies (including deleted scenes) and the Star Wars Radio Dramas from the 80's.

Novel canon: Extra events that occured within the movie based novels.

Expanded Universe: This includes the follow up novels, all the novels and comics that encompass the Old Republic up to the New Jedi Order, video games (Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is the first "Wars" game to be considered "official canon"). Expanded universe canon is authorized, but not endorsed, by George Lucas. As far as Lucas is concerned, the saga ended with Return of the Jedi....therefore, as far as Lucas is concerned, Fett is dead.
I didn't know that The Force Unleashed was considered "official canon." Neat! Unique that he didn't do that for Shadows of the Empire, which was another multimedia event.
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Old 10-17-2009, 12:44 PM
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Except for all the fanboys who still think Boba Fett is still alive because of the Dark Horse comics.....ugh.
Yeah, I was going to say. Because Max Rebo survives by somehow jumping out of the ship at the last second before it explodes according to sources other than the film.
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  #16  
Old 10-17-2009, 12:59 PM
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In my book, unless a deleted scene directly contradicts an actual scene in the film, ALL deleted scenes are canon. It's the only way I can acknowledge that NEMESIS is anywhere close to being canon, it sucked so bad that I needed the reinforcement of the deleted scenes to make it bearable. I love the ending as originally intended for NEMESIS, in which Picard in the last scene is seen doing what he loves most, being the captain of a starship on the bridge, surrounded by his crew, as the Enterprise majestically sails away into the final frontier. That was more fitting than just seeing him walk down a freaking corridor smiling. What was THAT about? Honestly, it doesn't get any more anticlimactic than that!!! Especially for my favorite trek series.
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jla1987 View Post
I didn't know that The Force Unleashed was considered "official canon." Neat! Unique that he didn't do that for Shadows of the Empire, which was another multimedia event.
Indeed...Shadows of the Empire the video game did not reach any real level of "canon" status, but at least the novelization is considered Exp Universe canon.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2009, 07:18 PM
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Indeed...Shadows of the Empire the video game did not reach any real level of "canon" status, but at least the novelization is considered Exp Universe canon.
'Tis a good novel. Never played the game, but I did have a Xizor toy.
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2009, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Archer View Post
In my book, unless a deleted scene directly contradicts an actual scene in the film, ALL deleted scenes are canon. It's the only way I can acknowledge that NEMESIS is anywhere close to being canon, it sucked so bad that I needed the reinforcement of the deleted scenes to make it bearable. I love the ending as originally intended for NEMESIS, in which Picard in the last scene is seen doing what he loves most, being the captain of a starship on the bridge, surrounded by his crew, as the Enterprise majestically sails away into the final frontier. That was more fitting than just seeing him walk down a freaking corridor smiling. What was THAT about? Honestly, it doesn't get any more anticlimactic than that!!! Especially for my favorite trek series.
Well, he's smiling to himself because he's realised that despite all the changes experienced (losing his crew etc) there's still a sense of optimism about going into the future (because he's realised that Data may not really be gone etc).

But I digress.....

Canon I usually take as mostly the aired material, but since everyone seems to have there own approach I guess canon is merely whatever you take it to be. TAS is an example where it's probably now more considered canonical than ever before.
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  #20  
Old 10-18-2009, 02:44 AM
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The notion of 'deleted scenes as canon' gets hairy when you delve into the realm of alternative scenes .Like Generations' alternate, deleted ending - the one where Kirk's unceremoniously and arbitrarily shot in the back, prompting Picard simply to shoot Soran dead with his own gun. That particular scene's very much deleted; it's also very much at odds with the finished product.
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