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  #101  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:51 AM
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Then it went 'pop' 43 years ago and GR went with it....

Maybe a better writer could have made a stunningly deep, intelligent and resonant allegory film while simultaneously introducing an entire universe and a half-dozen iconic known characters and explaining why everything was different looking while simultaneously providing the satisfying blend of action/adventure/intelligence and fun that TOS blended.

But then even Gene Roddenberry couldn't do that. So......go figure.
You can't do all that in one movie, that's why a real sci-fi writer like Roddenberry would have concentrated on some aspects.
A coming-of-age story with Vulcans, Romulans and Klingons ... this cannot work. So why did they overload the movie? Because it is Pop Trek, because Klingons and "green girls" (right, green girls, not Orions) belong into Trek, because you can attract the fan audience with it ... but not because it came naturally from their story.
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  #102  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:52 AM
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(seriously, even the most intellectual Trek should be understood by any halfwit)
Under the auspices of Gene Roddenberry - not always a problem.
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  #103  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:54 AM
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You can't do all that in one movie, that's why a real sci-fi writer like Roddenberry would have concentrated on some aspects.
A coming-of-age story with Vulcans, Romulans and Klingons ... this cannot work. So why did they overload the movie? Because it is Pop Trek, because Klingons and "green girls" (right, green girls, not Orions) belong into Trek, because you can attract the fan audience with it ... but not because it came naturally from their story.
Problem is, he's six feet under - he wasn't really bookable for the gig. Not much one can do about that. There's also the problem that GR's single Star Trek film he was really heavily involved in wasn't a stunning piece of writing itself. So, I'm afraid I can't put all my eggs in GR's basket.

And by the way - Uhura's/Rand's outfits naturally fit into precisely what aspects of TOS other than the fact they were expected in the 1960s? No, that wasn't to attract some viewers at all, it was part of GR's 'real' sci-fi future.

GR knew how to cover his bases - by uncovering Uhura's.
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Last edited by kevin : 10-09-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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  #104  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:11 PM
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I don't idolize Roddenberry, he wrote his fair share of bad scripts and he was a horndog which might have brought that bit of sexploitation into Trek.
But like many other Trek writers, he wrote authentically and he wrote sci-fi. O&K write pop, i.e. stuff that sells well but lacks creativity.
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  #105  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:12 PM
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I don't idolize Roddenberry, he wrote his fair share of bad scripts and he was a horndog which might have brought that bit of sexploitation into Trek.
But like many other Trek writers, he wrote authentically and he wrote sci-fi. O&K write pop, i.e. stuff that sells well but lacks creativity.
horatio, you were expecting two uberfans of Trek to write something that isn't pop?
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  #106  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I don't idolize Roddenberry, he wrote his fair share of bad scripts and he was a horndog which might have brought that bit of sexploitation into Trek.
But like many other Trek writers, he wrote authentically and he wrote sci-fi. O&K write pop, i.e. stuff that sells well but lacks creativity.
As long as we don't lose sight of the fact of that about GR. And while he might have written some authentic allegory based material (as did many other TOS writers) he could be as contrived in setting things up as anyone else who ever worked on Trek.

The rest is personal interpretation of course.
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Last edited by kevin : 10-09-2009 at 12:17 PM.
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  #107  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:14 PM
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As long as we don't lose sight of the fact of that about GR.

The rest is personal interpretation of course.
Agreed. I think the new movie was a good Trek story and kind of a hybrid of Star Trek and modern action movies. I still love it though!
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  #108  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:21 PM
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horatio, you were expecting two uberfans of Trek to write something that isn't pop?
Good point, is it possible that fans write a Trek piece which does not feel like a large reminiscence to past Trek?
To be fair, pop is not entirely bad, on the contrary, ST09 was a very entertaining rollercoaster ride. Pop is just not art.


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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
As long as we don't lose sight of the fact of that about GR. And while he might have written some authentic allegory based material (as did many other TOS writers) he could be as contrived in setting things up as anyone else who ever worked on Trek.

The rest is personal interpretation of course.
Well, I have nothing else but my personal opinion. Your mileage may differ.
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  #109  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:24 PM
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Good point, is it possible that fans write a Trek piece which does not feel like a large reminiscence to past Trek?
To be fair, pop is not entirely bad, on the contrary, ST09 was a very entertaining rollercoaster ride. Pop is just not art.
I enjoyed it both on a Star Trek level and as a popcorn flick. That was this one's main ingredient to get people in the theater. Trek never had a balance of the two before IMO.
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  #110  
Old 10-09-2009, 12:30 PM
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Well, I have nothing else but my personal opinion. Your mileage may differ.
And fender-benders can be fun anyway.
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