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  #21  
Old 09-25-2009, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Admiral Archer View Post
Generations, -sigh- where to begin with THAT one.

After having recently rewatched both Generations and Star Trek IV (my previous least favorite) I have now swapped their positions. Generations is IMO the WORST Star Trek movie. Here's what I thought.

LIKED:

Enterprise-B scenes
Visuals and Special Effects (Especially the Energy Ribbon)
The music
The "epic-ness" of the film (i.e. it didn't feel like a TV episode to me)
The Production Design (sets, etc.)
Data

DISLIKED:

Picard was a wuss
The TNG crew were incompetent (come on, guys, what were you THINKING?)
The manner in which the Enterprise-D was destroyed
The fact that the Enterprise-D was destroyed.
Kirk died horribly
Picard's family died horribly
The villains (not just Soren)
The whole damn film was depressing
Captain Harriman (who put THAT guy in charge of the ENTERPRISE!?)

In conclusion, Generations was a bad movie that looked and sounded pleasing to the eyes and ears. They had SO much potential, and they screwed it up. It was like watching your favorite football team get the ball, they're headed down the field, and before they get to the end, they trip and fumble the ball. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It also had lasting effects. I'm not a big fan of the Enterprise-E, and I have always wondered what it would have been like to see the Enterprise-D in its place. Now I'll never know.
Some good points there AA!

Under LIKED-

I agree with everthing except the epic-ness, it fel like an episode with Holywood level effects to me, still does.

Under DISLIKED-

I'm goign to cut Picard some latitude, he just lost his nephew in a horrible fire, the closet thing he'll ever have to a son. Also the nephew was a kindered spirit, being more liek his Uncle than his dad.

So agree with you on the crew, did Gerodie get hit in the head during the attack?? He forgot how to save the ship?? The ship had been through FAR worse.

Kirk had to die in the film, otherwise it would have been WAY too fanperson. Personally, I wished they had used the "shot in the back" scene. It would have shown more of Soren's desperation, and would have been more "realistic."

The ENT-D went before her time!

I disagree on Harriman, he was just stuck with an incomplete ship doing a "press junket" probbaly by order of Starfleet. He had no aniticpation of taking an uncompleted ship into action.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2009, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Zardoz
Kirk had to die in the film, otherwise it would have been WAY too fanperson. Personally, I wished they had used the "shot in the back" scene. It would have shown more of Soren's desperation, and would have been more "realistic."
Kirk didn't have to die in Generations (no more than Trip had to die in the finale of ENT), and the "shot in the back scene" was nearly universally condemned by the test audiences, hence why it was redone.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2009, 05:37 AM
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Kirk didn't have to die in Generations (no more than Trip had to die in the finale of ENT), and the "shot in the back scene" was nearly universally condemned by the test audiences, hence why it was redone.
Trip deserved to live.

Can you imagine what TNG would have been like with Shatner in the mix????

Sadly, I feel the test audiences had it wrong this time.
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Old 09-25-2009, 05:56 AM
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Trip deserved to live.
Some believe Kirk deserved to live too.
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Can you imagine what TNG would have been like with Shatner in the mix????
That's the thing, it wouldn't have effected TNG at all because he wouldn't never have heard about him again in the same way we never heard about Scotty or Captain Bateson (we know they're still out there, but they've moved on with their lives).
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Sadly, I feel the test audiences had it wrong this time.
Nah, it apparently really tested negatively in the early screenings, I think to the point where the whole film was given thumbs down by some, which prompted the scene to be refilmed so that Kirk died more heroically rather than go out like a little punk...
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2009, 06:17 AM
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Some believe Kirk deserved to live too.

That's the thing, it wouldn't have effected TNG at all because he wouldn't never have heard about him again in the same way we never heard about Scotty or Captain Bateson (we know they're still out there, but they've moved on with their lives).

Nah, it apparently really tested negatively in the early screenings, I think to the point where the whole film was given thumbs down by some, which prompted the scene to be refilmed so that Kirk died more heroically rather than go out like a little punk...
Ok..you honestly belive that Shatner would have not pushed to be in every TNG moive after that with a new ship???

Kelsey Gramar (actor) knew it was a one off, and it wokred well that way. I assumed Bateson and his crew were reacclimated to Starfleet of the 24th century, or pensioned off.

Scotty made it clear he just wanted to go away, and be left alone.

Shame that tested so negatively.
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  #26  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:16 AM
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Dying in Generations didn't stop Shatner anyway - he just churned out a dumb book resurrecting himself.

I've never really seen the problem killing characters off permanently.
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:17 AM
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Dying in Generations didn't stop Shatner anyway - he just churned out a dumb book resurrecting himself.

I've never really seen the problem killing characters off permanently.
I agree. Like the pic?
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:27 AM
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I agree. Like the pic?
Less now than I did then - to me it reeks of TV episode with a bigger budget, and in terms of epic scope 'All Good Things does eclipse it in every department except visual effects. I don't think Dennis McCarthy's music score is particularly good - but he's by far the poorest of all the composers to work on Trek anyway (Ron Jones was far superior the majority of the time) - and I still would have removed the entire 'handover sequence' and reconcieved the Nexus to fit only the TNG crew or dropped it and developed a different story.

The loss of the 'D' is in keeping with the general theme of loss and how one deals with it that drives the film. Both Soran and Picard lose a great deal but respond differently to it, while Kirk also loses as well.

And as the writers said, since they had to do something 'dramatic' to highlight the transition from TV to big screen it was either kill one of the cast or kill the 'D'. So it wasn't entirely a random decision to do it.

But the biggest problem the film suffers from was the list of studio requirements it was saddled with that had nothing to do with creating a good story. The commentary on the DVD is quite informative as to the tick list Moore and Braga had, and I feel that while it was done to please the fans it limited what they could do.

And IMO, most of it was not strictly needed anyway.

When it first came out I'd have given it a rough 7.5/10, nowadays, having thought on it over the years in the wider Star Trek context, I give it more of a 5/10.

I think it's now in retrospect actually one of the 'moments' where the franchise started to drift away from serving both fans and general audiences into pleasing the fanboys more, and that ended up a bad move.
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  #29  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:29 AM
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Less now than I did then - to me it reeks of TV episode with a bigger budget, and in terms of epic scope 'All Good Things does eclipse it in every department except visual effects. I don't think Dennis McCarthy's music score is particularly good - but he's by far the poorest of all the composers to work on Trek anyway (Ron Jones was far superior the majority of the time) - and I still would have removed the entire 'handover sequence' and reconcieved the Nexus to fit only the TNG crew or dropped it and developed a different story.

The loss of the 'D' is in keeping with the general theme of loss and how one deals with it that drives the film. Both Soran and Picard lose a great deal but respond differently to it, while Kirk also loses as well.

And as the writers said, since they had to do something 'dramatic' to highlight the transition from TV to big screen it was either kill one of the cast or kill the 'D'. So it wasn't entirely a random decision to do it.

But the biggest problem the film suffers from was the list of studio requirements it was saddled with that had nothing to do with creating a good story. The commentary on the DVD is quite informative as to the tick list Moore and Braga had, and I feel that while it was done to please the fans it limited what they could do.

And IMO, most of it was not strictly needed anyway.

When it first came out I'd have given it a rough 7.5/10, nowadays, having thought on it over the years in the wider Star Trek context, I give it more of a 5/10.

I think it's now in retrospect actually one of the 'moments' where the franchise started to drift away from serving both fans and general audiences into pleasing the fanboys more, and that ended up a bad move.
Overall, I do agree with you Kevin. The film also suffers from being made while season 7 of TNg was being produced. This film was too dammed rushed in my opion. And all facets of it were affected.
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  #30  
Old 09-25-2009, 09:37 AM
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That was just down to efficiency I guess - the sets were standing, the cast was free, to wait a year would have meant striking sets only to have to go to the cost of rebuilding them, then booking the actors all together etc.

I can see the reasoning.
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