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  #11  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:36 PM
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Kirk dying, it did need to happen. Otherwise the 24th century woudl have become way too "fanperson" for anyone's tatse.
Bringing back Kirk just to kill him off, nah, that didn't need to happen. They could have just kept him in the 23rd-Century and left his fate an unresolved mystery. I was happy with that. Coming up with a way so that Kirk meets Picard, now that was fanboyish, since simply seeing the two captains in the same film apparently wasn't enough...they had to actually meet and work together too in order to satisfy the #1 Trekkie Fantasy at the time.

A thousand people on his ship and you're telling me that the only one who can help Picard is a retired Enterprise captain from 100 years earlier?


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*On the fotonote, I agree. Harriman suffered from having to take out an uncompleted ship on a "press jucket" to "show the flag." A choice I am sure he didn't have nay hand in making.
Harriman probably kept telling Starfleet the ship shouldn't launch until after Tuesday, but he was overruled.
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  #12  
Old 09-24-2009, 12:42 PM
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Bringing back Kirk just to kill him off, nah, that didn't need to happen. They could have just kept him in the 23rd-Century and left his fate an unresolved mystery. I was happy with that. Coming up with a way so that Kirk meets Picard, now that was fanboyish, since simply seeing the two captains in the same film apparently wasn't enough...they had to actually meet and work together too in order to satisfy the #1 Trekkie Fantasy at the time.
There's a few different ways to look at it.

One the one hand, I agree with your idea that he (along with the entire crew and the Enterprise) should have been left heading towards the stars at the end of TUC .

I mean, really is there anymore appropriate ending anyway?

On the other hand, I think the fanboy element that would quite happily have hime living (somehow) til he was 300 and still fighting and having his glorious adventures needed their fanboyishness tempered by reminding them Kirk was just a mere mortal after all.

Then again, the equally fanboy issue of having them meet 80 years apart also grates in it's awful cheesiness (the franchise having disconnected from trying to be realistic and edging into self-immolation mode by now) is why I hate the Nexus. It was that stupid ribbon that made it all possible, and in fact does still keep Kirk alive forever anyway, because, as Guinan says, everyone pulled into the Nexus still remains there after they leave.
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  #13  
Old 09-24-2009, 01:07 PM
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There's a few different ways to look at it.

One the one hand, I agree with your idea that he (along with the entire crew and the Enterprise) should have been left heading towards the stars at the end of TUC .

I mean, really is there anymore appropriate ending anyway?

On the other hand, I think the fanboy element that would quite happily have hime living (somehow) til he was 300 and still fighting and having his glorious adventures needed their fanboyishness tempered by reminding them Kirk was just a mere mortal after all.
Actually, I didn't need to see Kirk anymore after TUC. That was a fitting end to his story, IMO. What I think was fanboyish was bringing him back just so he could meet Picard and then be buried by Picard.
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Then again, the equally fanboy issue of having them meet 80 years apart also grates in it's awful cheesiness (the franchise having disconnected from trying to be realistic and edging into self-immolation mode by now) is why I hate the Nexus. It was that stupid ribbon that made it all possible, and in fact does still keep Kirk alive forever anyway, because, as Guinan says, everyone pulled into the Nexus still remains there after they leave.
There was a lot of fanwanking going on in that movie.
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Old 09-24-2009, 01:08 PM
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Actually, I didn't need to see Kirk anymore after TUC. That was a fitting end to his story, IMO. What I think was fanboyish was bringing him back just so he could meet Picard and then be buried by Picard.
Essentially, neither did I.

That said, I remain glad he was killed off, for the aforementioned reasons.
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  #15  
Old 09-24-2009, 01:55 PM
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Essentially, neither did I.

That said, I remain glad he was killed off, for the aforementioned reasons.
I'm not. It's what I liked least about Generations.
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  #16  
Old 09-24-2009, 03:27 PM
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What would have been really cool is if Kirk had let Harriman go down to deflector control and stayed to captain the ship. Then, they could have figured out a better way to get him to the 24th century than the Nexus.
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Old 09-24-2009, 03:33 PM
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I take some solace that they refilmed the ending and didn't have him shot in the back as originally intended, that would have sucked. As for Kirk's death in general, if he was going to be in the film he had to be gone by the end of it, was fanboyish enough without the possibility of Kirk hunting down his old clan and continuing on (Scotty had a similar experience being brought into the 24th century as he was after Trek VI.

Likes:
-New D sets, though a bit dark in places
-Emotion chip, some people really hate it, I think Spiner really made it work without ruining Data as a character, though I'll admit there was a bit too much of it.
-The separation, nice to see it again, the sequence was great to watch.

Dislikes:
-The fact that it wasn't really an ensemble effort by the cast, Crusher, Riker, Worf are thin on the ground (same complaint about Nemesis).
-The fact that even without shields the Enterprise couldn't unlease a huge barrage of firepower on the bop like we've seen them do many times before.

With the cameos, I think they work, was nice to see Kirk being able to bounce his discomfort off people who understood why he wasn't overly enjoying himself on the B, saying that though I can see why Nimoy declined to come back.

Ultimately I enjoyed Generations, I don't think it's the best TNG film but it had it's moments. All Good Things would have made a better film, and I think in general season 7 TNG faltered as a result of time spent doing the film. In retrospect I think a year or should have passed after the end of TNG before they released the film, I reckon the season and the film would have been better because of it.
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Old 09-24-2009, 11:50 PM
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What would have been really cool is if Kirk had let Harriman go down to deflector control and stayed to captain the ship. Then, they could have figured out a better way to get him to the 24th century than the Nexus.
It was 80 years later? How were they going to do that? Have a Khan style cryochamber? Have him stuck in a pattern buffer?

The whole problem with Kirk's presence in the 24th Century was that there was no way to do it in any way that was natural and unforced.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2009, 11:51 PM
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I'm not. It's what I liked least about Generations.
Fair play.
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  #20  
Old 09-25-2009, 12:28 AM
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Generations, -sigh- where to begin with THAT one.

After having recently rewatched both Generations and Star Trek IV (my previous least favorite) I have now swapped their positions. Generations is IMO the WORST Star Trek movie. Here's what I thought.

LIKED:

Enterprise-B scenes
Visuals and Special Effects (Especially the Energy Ribbon)
The music
The "epic-ness" of the film (i.e. it didn't feel like a TV episode to me)
The Production Design (sets, etc.)
Data

DISLIKED:

Picard was a wuss
The TNG crew were incompetent (come on, guys, what were you THINKING?)
The manner in which the Enterprise-D was destroyed
The fact that the Enterprise-D was destroyed.
Kirk died horribly
Picard's family died horribly
The villains (not just Soren)
The whole damn film was depressing
Captain Harriman (who put THAT guy in charge of the ENTERPRISE!?)

In conclusion, Generations was a bad movie that looked and sounded pleasing to the eyes and ears. They had SO much potential, and they screwed it up. It was like watching your favorite football team get the ball, they're headed down the field, and before they get to the end, they trip and fumble the ball. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. It also had lasting effects. I'm not a big fan of the Enterprise-E, and I have always wondered what it would have been like to see the Enterprise-D in its place. Now I'll never know.
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