[jla1987]

So, maybe the reason why Insurrection is so out of place is due to my never watching DS9? It may very well be a contributing factor, beyond the boring plot of the film.

[Kukalaka]

Originally Posted by jla1987

So, maybe the reason why Insurrection is so out of place is due to my never watching DS9? It may very well be a contributing factor, beyond the boring plot of the film.

DS9 definitely portrayed the Federation being close to "dire straits" in a couple of episodes. It always had a nice balance between resting on one's laurels and doing what had to be done to ensure the war was won against the Dominion.

[Pauln6]

Originally Posted by horatio

I disagree. Throughout all off TNG, the helm did not seem like a very demanding bridge position (Geordi, Wesley, all those ensigns). Unlike in the other series which featured Sulu, Paris and Mayweather, piloting never seemed like a specialty but rather like something every officer aboard could do.
Troi just fits in there, a basic Academy course suffices to pilot the ship, and GEN showed that this comes in handy in emergencies.

Yeah all crewmen are capable of manning the helm. Yeoman Rand and Uhura have done so in an emergency too.

I take issue with the scene in Insurrection where the Romulan officer offers herself to Shinzon on a plate. She clearly has no feelings for him, it is an embarassing way of demeaning an otherwise efficient military character, and it in no way adds anything to Shinzon's character.

[NCC-73515]

Perhaps you mean Nemesis. Nemesis was bad, but Insurrection was good

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by NCC-73515

Perhaps you mean Nemesis. Nemesis was bad, but Insurrection was good

I can see how people would confuse the two. They're both extended episodes that didn't really offer anything to the franchise.

[NCC-73515]

INS offered "How many people does it take..."

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by NCC-73515

INS offered "How many people does it take..."

It also offered the least interesting villain in cinematic history.

[horatio]

Originally Posted by kevin

It's interference in a non-civilised pre-warp culture for their own aims. Is not such interference prohibited by the terms of the PD?

Also a Starship Captain is supposed to die with his ship before violating the PD yet Kirk violates it in order to save the ship in 'A Taste of Armageddon'. That would appear to be contradicting the terms for the pursuit of staying alive.

There are other instances in which it happens.

In fact, again depending on perspective, the PD is violated in the very first TOS episode it gets mentioned in.

So if it's a rule that can get bent to suit the moment - it can't be the most important one, can it? Because if you do break your no.1 rule to suit - what does that say about your regard for it? That it's optional?

However, what was more intriguing (as I've said IMO forced relocation wasn't to me a compelling plot aspect because it's happened in real history plenty of times) was what you alluded to about bad alliances.

In INS there's a little subtext that the effects of the Dominion war has ravaged the Federation so much that it's in a corner and reduced to having to put aside it's core values and principles in order to get any new allies to come onboard in their side of the war. Simply because it's in a far weaker position than a few years earlier, when they probably wouldn't have touched the Sona with a barge-pole.

I believe Troi or Riker has a line to the effect of 'why are we dealing with these people?' in the film. That side of the sinking of the Federation's principles debate was far more intriguing than the relocation one the film actually went down.

Well said, Kevin. INS is indeed not merely about the PD but also about making an alliance with a bunch of thugs. Picard, although mainly bothered by the PD violation, mentions the questionable motives of the Sona in his conversation with Dougherty.
Sisko's actions led to a good outcome as the Romulans are permanent enemies of the Dominion, whereas Dougherty's actions and the inital decision of the Federation Council were unwise as the Sona seem to have switched side afterwards. At least I faintly remember that they were mentioned to fight for the Dominion in a later DS9 episode.

[NCC-73515]

Originally Posted by jla1987

It also offered the least interesting villain in cinematic history.

Villains who twirl their moustaches are what you want?
No need for epic villains in Trek, I say.

[jla1987]

Originally Posted by NCC-73515

Villains who twirl their moustaches are what you want?
No need for epic villains in Trek, I say.

I agree, however Ru'afo was just uninteresting and not at all memorable. I can hardly recall anything he did beyond his scream and occasional bleeding. I could never say that Khan, Chang, the Borg Queen, Kruge, or even Sybok and Soran aren't memorable. The first thing that pops into my head when thinking of Insurrection is Data singing along with Picard and Worf...that's sad.