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  #71  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:48 AM
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We Europeans enjoy the longest peace period in history because the Allied (sans the Russians) decided not to exert revenge, although they had every right to destroy all industry and transform Germany into a agricultural country.
The Germans would definitely not have been as peaceful as the Native Americans, sooner or later tried to revenge themselves and another of those decades or centuries enduring conflicts soaked with deep hate would have begun or rather have been continued.

One reason for this lack of revenge was of course the dawning Cold War, but that was not the only reason. A few years after the war, the French did even let a region decide whether they want to live under French or German administration. A nice example for true democracy, democracy without any desires to maintain influence over country and resources, democracy without imperialism.

So this seemingly naive, lefty, peacenik attitude, stopping the spiral of violence, is the very reason for peace over here and it turned a bunch of nazis into decent democrats.
Sometimes you have to battle fire with fire, but usually you try to stop it with water.
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  #72  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jerhanner View Post
I didn't know what we did to the Native Americans until I took a college course from a full-blood Cherokee professor. Things like the smallpox blankets, or cutting out women's uteruses as trophys, or starvation, or refusing to let them speak their own language...
Trust me, I've read more serious books about WW2 than anyone else here, I'd be willing to bet, and Hitler learned a lot from the American effort to totally eradicate a group of people.
So no, Americans still think that the continent was empty when our relgious fanatic ancestors showed up.

Also, I had a German roomie in college - well educated lass - and she knew ALL about WW2. All the bad stuff. The only thing she didn't know was just who Field Marshall Rommel was. That kind of surprised me.
Yes it was a genocide for sure, equal to, if not surpassing, the Holocaust. Goverment sanctioned genocide.
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  #73  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
Zardoz does not need to be King. Zardoz is an allmighty and allknowing stonehead. Zardoz makes Kings!
Moahahahaha... cough, cough... hahaha.
'Stone' or 'stoned'? Maybe a stoned stonehead when the situation calls for it? Actually that might make a pretty interesting movie.
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  #74  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Samuel View Post
'Stone' or 'stoned'? Maybe a stoned stonehead when the situation calls for it? Actually that might make a pretty interesting movie.
As Jim Morrision sang, "Out here on the permiter there are no stars, out here we is stoned...immaculate."
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  #75  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
And I thought these people stole the land from the natives to create a country where they can marry their cousins and own black men as slaves.
Well I consider this to be as big a generalization as:

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Originally Posted by The Guardian View Post
I'd love to read your school's US history books! I guess you guys still deny those concentration camps................
Both are inflammatory and neither entirely true. None of my ancestors owned slaves or married within their families but they did have the land taken from them. I'm Native American on my father's side and Scottish on my mother's and I imagine my family tree has experienced as much racism as anyone's on this board. Anyway it just seems to me like there's an attempt to justify a double standard here and that too many people are too quick to scream racism when different cultures are discussed........or argued. Germany's had its run ins with slavery so it would be pretty cool if the stone throwing would just stop.
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  #76  
Old 07-30-2009, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Howlin' Wolf View Post
Both are inflammatory and neither entirely true. None of my ancestors owned slaves or married within their families but they did have the land taken from them. I'm Native American on my father's side and Scottish on my mother's and I imagine my family tree has experienced as much racism as anyone's on this board. Anyway it just seems to me like there's an attempt to justify a double standard here and that too many people are too quick to scream racism when different cultures are discussed........or argued. Germany's had its run ins with slavery so it would be pretty cool if the stone throwing would just stop.
Listen, Howlin Wolf. It is not the first time an american implied I had no clue about US history, that I would be an anti-american and that as being a german I should be ashamed, bow down and stop daring to point out any flaws in any nations history, that I should be gratefull for being allowed to talk. I wont play along with these silly games. Thats all this little conflict was about. There is no doublestandard. Dont try to make this about wether US national pride is victim of a double standard. Its not. National pride sucks, all of them.

Yes, germany had its run. But I am not germany, The Guardian is not the United States and you are not your ancestors.

All what identifying yourself or others with nations and tribes does achieve is bad blood, as this thread here proves impressively.

Now lets leave this stone age mentality behind, shall we.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 07-30-2009 at 03:20 PM.
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  #77  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:17 PM
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I don't care whether you take any pride in Germany or Germany takes any pride in you. My remarks mainly centered around why Guardians post was considered racist when yours was not. Even Zardoz thinks the genocide committed against Native Americans was as bad if not worse than the cleansing of the jews so your 'joke' was as racist as The Guardians statement, if either was racist at all. If the discussion of different countries and cultures bothered me as much as it obviously does you I'd stay out of the thread. But I know you can't do that. Edit- Too many jokes to tell.
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  #78  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Howlin' Wolf View Post
If the discussion of different countries and cultures bothered me as much as it obviously does you I'd stay out of the thread. But I know you can't do that.
I think you didnt quite get what the conflict was about and are thus misrepresenting it. Oh, and thanks for telling me to shut up.
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  #79  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
I think you didnt quite get what the conflict was about and are thus misrepresenting it.
Like I said I was mainly commenting on the joke and the insult not so much the thread itself.

Quote:
Oh, and thanks for telling me to shut up.
No problem.
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  #80  
Old 07-31-2009, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Howlin' Wolf View Post
I don't care whether you take any pride in Germany or Germany takes any pride in you. My remarks mainly centered around why Guardians post was considered racist when yours was not. Even Zardoz thinks the genocide committed against Native Americans was as bad if not worse than the cleansing of the jews so your 'joke' was as racist as The Guardians statement, if either was racist at all. If the discussion of different countries and cultures bothered me as much as it obviously does you I'd stay out of the thread. But I know you can't do that. Edit- Too many jokes to tell.
Any genocide is bad, and sadly it still goes on. Seen it first hand.

Howlin', it's hard to tell intent here. Ok, Guardian's comments could be taken the way you said, and I tend to agree. But let's hear what they have on it to say before we judge. Pesonally, I think both of them misspoke, at best.

Sometimes people make jokes about things that deply bother them.
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