The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Off Topic Discussions > Fascinating to put it mildly.
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:34 PM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,282
Default

On a personal note, I'd like to add that I care little about enviromentalists who collect frogs to carry them over the streets and stuff like that. I like my car and all the electrical appliances that make our lives more comfortable.



It's a simple cost/benefit matter. We observe the weather and volcanoes to check out for potential catastrophes, we maintain a military and firefighters to be prepared in case a fire breaks out or someone attack us. The decision to spend money in all these cases is based on simple cost/benefit analysis.
Spending the money is cheaper in terms of money and human lives than letting houses burn down from time to time or being attacked from time to time. Similar with climate change, we don't battle it because there are some environmentalists who wanna protect frogs but because its benefits exceed its costs.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:39 PM
TGElder TGElder is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Indian Trail, NC
Posts: 1,323
Default

We do not need another go around about Global Warming.

Suffice it to say that if I conserve, it will be because it saves me money, not because I'm saving the planet. If I recycle it'll be because I can get money for my glass, aluminum, brass and copper, not because I am concerned about it sitting in a landfill.
If I buy a car, it'll be because it's what I want, not because some Washington Stuffed Shirt(who has never done anything but get elected) tells me I have to by a rolling coffin.

"Nuff said. You won't change my mind and I won't change yours.
__________________
TGElder NCC 1701-E
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:52 PM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,282
Default

No problem, agreeing to disagree is the most important democratic skill. I just tried to provide an economic analysis of the situation.
If you remember the source of the estimates for rise in food prices and electricity, I'd be interested.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-20-2009, 07:37 PM
TGElder TGElder is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Indian Trail, NC
Posts: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
No problem, agreeing to disagree is the most important democratic skill. I just tried to provide an economic analysis of the situation.
If you remember the source of the estimates for rise in food prices and electricity, I'd be interested.
Here's one link:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1723.cfm
http://nrd.nationalreview.com/articl...VhZTE4ZjcxYTE=
http://thinkcarbon.wordpress.com/200...l-at-a-glance/

One thing that many estimates do not take into consideration is that every producer requires energy of some sort to operate. From farmers to factories. When their costs increase because of the increased cost of producing energy under the Cap and Trade bill, they will not absorb all of that cost. It will run down hill to the next guy in line, and he'll add his production, warehousing and transportation costs onto the back of the product until it gets to your hand, and who do you think will be left holding the bill for all the increases?

I have yet to find the article with the 10 year percentage increases, but I do remember that you will see by 2020 the cost of electricity being 90% higher than it is today due to the effect of cap and trade legislation.

Look at Australia and New Zealand now back-pedaling away from similar legislation they they passed recently. They are dismantling their Cap and Trade programs because they were costly, ineffective and deleterious to economic livelihood.
__________________
TGElder NCC 1701-E
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:54 PM
Scribbler's Avatar
Scribbler Scribbler is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 726
Default

This thread and others like it will stand as a sad testament of what is wrong with attitudes in our century. When people look back at and wonder why in the face of all the evidence people chose to do nothing, historians can show them forums like this. I'd just like to say a personal message to our grandchildren's children and the people to come after: "Sorry. We really tried to get these people to listen. I hope you get through it. If you get a chance, go scuba diving in London or New York and think of us."
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:11 PM
Elizadolots's Avatar
Elizadolots Elizadolots is offline
Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,466
Default

I haven't watched the original video...I'll try to do that tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler View Post
Leaving things alone didn't work out too well with Hurricane Katrina, did it?
Katrina was not a case of leaving things alone. The Bush administration had implemented a "wetlands banking" program that allowed companies to destroy and build on wetlands in one area as long as they gave money to support wetlands in another area. Colorado is full of "wetland banks"...land that is preserved as wetlands so that companies can develop other wetlands into commercial areas.

Wetlands absorb most of the energy from a hurricane. Before the destruction of the wetlands, New Orleans had never suffered the effects of a big hurricane. Never. And the records for New Orleans go back to the founding of America.

The destruction caused by Katrina is directly attributable to the decision by the Bush administration to allow construction on "wetland" sites surrounding New Orleans in exchange for the companies paying to protect wetlands in places like Colorado.

Human stupidity caused the Katrina crisis....to pretend it was anything else it to ignore the facts.
__________________


Thanks to Ron Salon for the signature banner!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:39 AM
Zardoz's Avatar
Zardoz Zardoz is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere In The Future
Posts: 31,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
No problem, agreeing to disagree is the most important democratic skill. I just tried to provide an economic analysis of the situation.
If you remember the source of the estimates for rise in food prices and electricity, I'd be interested.
Truer words have never been said!
__________________
"High Priestesses Of Zardoz" By Eliza's Starbase Of Avatars Copyright 2009."
"Zardoz Speaks To You, His Choosen Trek Fans."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:35 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.