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  #11  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
I know and understand exactly what it is you're trying to say.

But here's the thing, and this is a point that I think activists on both sides of the isle seem to miss. It's not an issue of trying to save the ecology per say. One could make the argument that Earth's ecology has never been at steady state and they'd be correct. Rather it is about managing the ecology, yeah you could even call it manipulating if you so desire, bit's the same just one sounds more negative than the other. Like it or not, we are part of the Earth's ecology and things that happen to the ecology will affect us just as our activities affect the ecology, so it is still our ecology as well. That is true of all organisms from humans down to the simplest of single cell organisms. Sentience and technology don't really change that. Maybe if we were to all pack up and move the entire human population to the moon or something that we would no longer be part of the Earth's ecology.
I agree...we are headed towards a Soylent Green-Silent Running type of world. Humans will make themselves non-existant. At least the Dinasours were affected by events not of their own creation in their extinction.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:53 AM
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Leaving things alone didn't work out too well with Hurricane Katrina, did it?

As Bill Gates couldn't make a version of Windows which booted up in a decent time or a version of Word where the paragraphing didn't do random sh*t, I'm a little concerned at him attempting the godlike power of weather control. We can't reboot the earth if it goes wrong. I suppose incremental experiments are the key. It is an exciting idea.
If we hadn't built a city where it was guaranteed that a Katrina would happen some day....
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:39 AM
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I agree...we are headed towards a Soylent Green-Silent Running type of world. Humans will make themselves non-existant. At least the Dinasours were affected by events not of their own creation in their extinction.
I really need to see that movie. I keep hearing about it, but haven't seen it.

That MIT professor I mentioned earlier in his talks, he shows the global temperature verses CO2 plot that most people who follow topic are familiar with. As he puts it, it's nice to see, but he prefers a much different correlation which is a correlating it with human population and probably underscores the broader problem.

We only have so much land that is available for farming at any given point of time. I took a forestry class just to fill some credit ours and they were mentioning issues with clearing rain forest to farm and how environmentalists tend to go down their and just shoot their mouths off telling the locals you can't do that. One problem is that the soil quality in some of these regions is so poor that nutrients end up getting leeched out very quickly with the farming methods and will remain so for years on end before the soil is replenished sufficiently to be able to grow crops. So you can't just go in and say you can't do this, you have to give them an option other than starving.

Personally I really hope to see hydroponics become used more and more. Plants do not require soil but nutrients and water so you can grow them pretty much anywhere as long as you have that and are able to have a controlled environment. NASA has certainly seen potential benefits of putting funding into the research of hydroponics as part of their Controlled Ecological Life Support System (CLESS) for being able to grow plants off planet for purposes included food, air revitalization, and waste water treatment.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
I really need to see that movie. I keep hearing about it, but haven't seen it.

That MIT professor I mentioned earlier in his talks, he shows the global temperature verses CO2 plot that most people who follow topic are familiar with. As he puts it, it's nice to see, but he prefers a much different correlation which is a correlating it with human population and probably underscores the broader problem.

We only have so much land that is available for farming at any given point of time. I took a forestry class just to fill some credit ours and they were mentioning issues with clearing rain forest to farm and how environmentalists tend to go down their and just shoot their mouths off telling the locals you can't do that. One problem is that the soil quality in some of these regions is so poor that nutrients end up getting leeched out very quickly with the farming methods and will remain so for years on end before the soil is replenished sufficiently to be able to grow crops. So you can't just go in and say you can't do this, you have to give them an option other than starving.

Personally I really hope to see hydroponics become used more and more. Plants do not require soil but nutrients and water so you can grow them pretty much anywhere as long as you have that and are able to have a controlled environment. NASA has certainly seen potential benefits of putting funding into the research of hydroponics as part of their Controlled Ecological Life Support System (CLESS) for being able to grow plants off planet for purposes included food, air revitalization, and waste water treatment.
You should see that film, it is a bit dated, but is still relevant.

I have hopes for hyroponics and alternate energies, but think it's 30-40 years too late to start widescale implimenting of them.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2009, 08:08 AM
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You should see that film, it is a bit dated, but is still relevant.

I have hopes for hyroponics and laternate energies, but think it's 30-40 years too late to start widescale implimenting of them.
Well I don't know if it's really too late to start widescale implementation in order to be able to make a difference in the future, but I think it is too late to begin the work in the hopes of immediately solving the worlds current hunger issues or to immediately mitigate issues of water shortages or preventing them from getting worse then they already are in the immediate future. Hydroponically grown produce is already available commercially, but in extremely minute quantities.

On the other hand, one might say it is too early for us to try widescale implementation because it does require more power than traditional outdoor farming because of the need to environmental control. So the current issues of how we power our civilization probably needs to be dealt with first before we can expect to even begin large scale implementation.

Personally I think in terms of aggriculture, moving toward things like hydoponics will probably be like another dustbowl situation. It was too late to prevent the dustbowl through the use of soil conservation. But by implementing it, we were able to ride out the dustbowl and prevent it from happening again. The damage had been done, but recovery became possible.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
Well I don't know if it's really too late to start widescale implementation in order to be able to make a difference in the future, but I think it is too late to begin the work in the hopes of immediately solving the worlds current hunger issues or to immediately mitigate issues of water shortages or preventing them from getting worse then they already are in the immediate future. Hydroponically grown produce is already available commercially, but in extremely minute quantities.

On the other hand, one might say it is too early for us to try widescale implementation because it does require more power than traditional outdoor farming because of the need to environmental control. So the current issues of how we power our civilization probably needs to be dealt with first before we can expect to even begin large scale implementation.

Personally I think in terms of aggriculture, moving toward things like hydoponics will probably be like another dustbowl situation. It was too late to prevent the dustbowl through the use of soil conservation. But by implementing it, we were able to ride out the dustbowl and prevent it from happening again. The damage had been done, but recovery became possible.
Well I hope your vision comes true!
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  #17  
Old 07-20-2009, 08:59 AM
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Yeah this sounds dangerous.
Everything has effect something else.
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  #18  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:04 AM
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Yeah this sounds dangerous.
Everything has effect something else.
One could argue that breathing has that risk Saq.
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  #19  
Old 07-20-2009, 12:12 PM
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Nature is amazingly adaptable though. Look at places where human civilizations once flourished, and now there is very little to show us humans once lived there. Nature closes in and erases the traces of humanity.
Look at the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. These cultures once conquered the jungles of Central America. Now their cities are swallowed up by the very jungles that once were their homes.

Nature has a way of balancing itself. I dare say that if we just quit mucking about with things life will go on pretty much as it should.

Now who's first to sign up for the Amish Life?
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  #20  
Old 07-20-2009, 12:22 PM
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Nature is amazingly adaptable though. Look at places where human civilizations once flourished, and now there is very little to show us humans once lived there. Nature closes in and erases the traces of humanity.
Look at the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. These cultures once conquered the jungles of Central America. Now their cities are swallowed up by the very jungles that once were their homes.

Nature has a way of balancing itself. I dare say that if we just quit mucking about with things life will go on pretty much as it should.

Now who's first to sign up for the Amish Life?
Its never about earth. Its about man and his living standard ON earth. And I dont think we have to abandon all industry, grow beards, wear funny hats and adopt an anti-sexual stoneage ideology just to keep our living standard. To boost investments in the development of better green technologies suffices perfectly.
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