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  #51  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
What would she do if the UT broke? Or she was in a landing party and didn't have access to one? Why wouldn't SFA teach all kinds of languages to it's communications officers? It seems pretty irresponsible for SF to let it's communications officers out of the Academy knowing only two languages and both of them being Earth languages. That hardly qualifies that officer for a position on the best ship in the fleet.
Show me in canon (meaning: in the series or in the movies) where it says she's a linguist or knows more than the two languages. You are drawing a conclusion based on your own opinion and there is no evidence in canon to support it.

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I'm jumping to no conclusions at all. Just drawing logical conclusions from the statements made on the shows. That conclusion is that the crew of the Enterprise should be the best and brightest that SF has to offer. Not perfect, but as close as humanly (and non-humanly) possible and always striving to be better.
The crew of the Enterprise IS the best and brightest Starfleet has to offer, but that doesn't mean Uhura is a human UT or that McCoy is an expert on Klingon physiology when they are the enemy (and there are no Klingons on their side of the Neutral Zone). You assume your conclusions are logical because they fit things that you decided these characters should be and that's just not the way Gene made them.

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You're being speciest with all your concentration on humanity. I'm sure Spock would find it a bit insulting.
You seem to forget that Spock was half human and always conflicted where that side was concerned.

Look, Roddenberry said himself that the Enterprise was supposed to represent "spaceship Earth." The advertising tag-line to ST:TMP? Yep..."The Human Adventure is Just Beginning." The best hours of Star Trek show Kirk (or Picard or Sisko, et al) defending humanity's redeeming qualities and not being as savage and barbarous as the alien race of the week thinks.

Star Trek is about humanity. That's not being speciest; that's being minimally observant of the world that Roddenberry created.
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  #52  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
I can see Uhura fixing her console (including the UT). SFA would teach it's communications officers that, I belive.
Good point Zardoz...as a matter of fact I remember one instance where Uhura was laying on the floor with her head stuck in a console trying to repair the commincations equipment, and Spock complimenting her on her work.

She wasnt a linguist, wasnt an expert in multispecies languages and wasnt an engineer. She most certainly learned how to repair HER equipment when she was at the academy.

In was trained in Linux. If I was on the Enterprise would I be expected to know every operating system, code language, program interface etc etc.? The whole idea of Uhura being her own UT is preposterous.

Same with McCoy. if he knew the physiology of every species in all 4 quadrants, he might as well rename him self God. Whats the point?

As stated earlier...gotta go with RedShirt on this one. His points are more valid and hold more water in the grand scheme of thing.
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  #53  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:23 PM
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Show me canon on screen where it shows she can't speak non-human languages, except for the Klinogn example. Speaking multiple languages wouldn't make her a linguist. That's another profession altogether. The conclusion that Uhura would be fluent in many languages is a simple one to make given the nature of the Federation and her position. There's not a lot required beyond that.

Uhura needn't be a human UT, but having some ability to communicate without it seems like it would be standard knowledge for communications officers. It also seems that the best communications officer in the fleet would be fluent in many languages. Similarly, it stands to reason that a doctor serving in Starfleet, an organization with multiple species, would have a working knowledge of the anatomy of and medical practices of all those species.

Klingons were only on their side of the Neutral Zone? What about "The Trouble with Tribbles"? What about "Errand of Mercy"? What about "A Private Little War"? What about "Day of the Dove"? Humans have had close personal contact with Klingons since a corn farmer shot one shortly before the launch of the NX-01. Surely SF had some chance to scan their physiology. And surely McCoy would have studied it.

My conclusions are logical based on what we're told and shown on screen.

I didn't forget Spock's halfs were conflicted, but you suggest the be all and end all is humanity. No matter how conflicted Spock felt, that's an insult to his Vulcan half.

The fact that TMP was called "the human adventure" was also speciest and that tag line shouldn't have been used. That sort of thing has been in Star Trek for a long time, and shouldn't. Take all the McCoy vs. Spock fights and take McCoy's lines and change "human" to "white" and "Vulcan" to "black" and see how it sounds. Not good.
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  #54  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:24 PM
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Why would Uhura fix her UT? Surely that's the job of an engineer.
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  #55  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:29 PM
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Show me onscreen, in continuity, where it's stated that Uhura had parents or grandparents or great grandparents. It's not. So should it be assumed that she doesn't?
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  #56  
Old 03-11-2008, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
Show me onscreen, in continuity, where it's stated that Uhura had parents or grandparents or great grandparents. It's not. So should it be assumed that she doesn't?
Oh no, two sets of logic being mixed here. By the nature of human procreation, we can easily assume Uhura had grandparents because she exists. Someone created her parents who created her. Self-evident by the nature of billions of examples, and the proof is stipulated by nature.

That logic does not apply to the above where you ask for proof that Uhura can't speak non-human languages, and the lack of such proof validates your point. That is logical fallacy.
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  #57  
Old 03-11-2008, 01:01 PM
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Every human has parents and grandparents. It's a prerequisite to existence.

It is NOT, however, a prerequisite for a communcations officer to know numerous languages. That's never been established.
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  #58  
Old 03-11-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
Show me canon on screen where it shows she can't speak non-human languages, except for the Klinogn example. Speaking multiple languages wouldn't make her a linguist. That's another profession altogether. The conclusion that Uhura would be fluent in many languages is a simple one to make given the nature of the Federation and her position. There's not a lot required beyond that.
Not a problem. If you go back and watch all 79 TOS episodes and the six subsequent movies that Uhura is in, you'll see that for yourself. It is never introduced that she can speak any languages other than English or Swahili.

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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
Uhura needn't be a human UT, but having some ability to communicate without it seems like it would be standard knowledge for communications officers. It also seems that the best communications officer in the fleet would be fluent in many languages. Similarly, it stands to reason that a doctor serving in Starfleet, an organization with multiple species, would have a working knowledge of the anatomy of and medical practices of all those species.
There's the problem: "it seems like it would be standard knowledge." It isn't or, more succinctly, it hasn't been introduced that that's a requirement for her position.

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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
Klingons were only on their side of the Neutral Zone? What about "The Trouble with Tribbles"? What about "Errand of Mercy"? What about "A Private Little War"? What about "Day of the Dove"? Humans have had close personal contact with Klingons since a corn farmer shot one shortly before the launch of the NX-01. Surely SF had some chance to scan their physiology. And surely McCoy would have studied it.
I didn't say Klingons had never been on the other side of the Neutral Zone. I said "there are no Klingons on their side." Meaning: there aren't Klingons as citizens of the Federation ala Worf or even K'eylehr. Yes, Star Fleet had encounters with Klingons and (not counting the adventures of the NX-01 because it took place well after TOS and the TOS-era movies), McCoy could very well have been a specialist in a great many areas. Vulcans and Klingons apparently weren't it, apparently.

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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
My conclusions are logical based on what we're told and shown on screen.
No, they really aren't. They're supposition based on opinion and not logic. You're not Vulcan, dude. Besides, this thread isn't any better than when I read it yesterday over on TrekWeb.

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I didn't forget Spock's halfs were conflicted, but you suggest the be all and end all is humanity. No matter how conflicted Spock felt, that's an insult to his Vulcan half.
Nooooo...I never said that humanity is the be all/end all. YOU said that. I said Star Trek was about humanity...and it very much is.

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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
The fact that TMP was called "the human adventure" was also speciest and that tag line shouldn't have been used. That sort of thing has been in Star Trek for a long time, and shouldn't. Take all the McCoy vs. Spock fights and take McCoy's lines and change "human" to "white" and "Vulcan" to "black" and see how it sounds. Not good.
Like it or not, you're human. There's nothing speciest about calling ST:TMP "the human adventure." Star Trek is a reflection of who we are and that has been true from the first interviews Roddenberry gave on the subject. That fact is inescapable.

If you can't see that, then...I'm sorry...I don't know what you think Star Trek is.
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  #59  
Old 03-11-2008, 03:17 PM
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I think everybody (including JB himself) has missed out on JB's original point.

He brought up some good points about legendary characters being used as punch lines. The only comparisons we have are the TNG movies, and besides the humor used at the expense of Data's emotion chip, or Worf's Klingon temperment, you really don't see a joke being thrown at their skill level. Maybe I may have missed a joke or two, but I can't remember....

But I do agree that this is supposed to be their younger years, and ithey should not know everything. If anything, Uhura talking jibberish to the Klingons and Scotty walking into a beam may have been better suited for this film when you would expect that of "rookies"!
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  #60  
Old 03-11-2008, 04:09 PM
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Did we all forget Trek 5 where everybody BUT Kirk was used as a punchline?
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