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  #11  
Old 07-11-2009, 01:58 PM
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I have a question regarding the scenes with the ships hovering over the cities. Are the special effects considered TV quality or low budget? I have always been satisfied with special effects and they are always getting better. It boggles my mind when I hear how much is spent on movie special effects and I wonder why they are so expensive. In the case of Transformers I understand all the computer power that went into animating the robots, but when it comes to things like new shots of the Enterprise in NuTrek, why are they so darn expensive?
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2009, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
I have a question regarding the scenes with the ships hovering over the cities. Are the special effects considered TV quality or low budget? I have always been satisfied with special effects and they are always getting better. It boggles my mind when I hear how much is spent on movie special effects and I wonder why they are so expensive. In the case of Transformers I understand all the computer power that went into animating the robots, but when it comes to things like new shots of the Enterprise in NuTrek, why are they so darn expensive?
For one thing its not just Enterprise. Its everything else in space, which is all computer generated of course. No way actual locations can be used. You can bet most live action shots had varying degrees of digital effects also. However, its not just the computing power but like all things its the labor costs that get you. Paying all these artists and programmers to do all of this aint cheap. Then keep in mind that Transformers 2 cost $50 million more to make. So if anything, did that movie get $50 million worth of extra stuff?

Oh... and ILM can command a premium for everything. It goes with being the best in the business.
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Old 07-11-2009, 03:47 PM
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For one thing its not just Enterprise. Its everything else in space, which is all computer generated of course. No way actual locations can be used. You can bet most live action shots had varying degrees of digital effects also. However, its not just the computing power but like all things its the labor costs that get you. Paying all these artists and programmers to do all of this aint cheap. Then keep in mind that Transformers 2 cost $50 million more to make. So if anything, did that movie get $50 million worth of extra stuff?

Oh... and ILM can command a premium for everything. It goes with being the best in the business.
I guess to put it simply, why are movie special effects so much more expensive than Tv effects? I don't think they are that much greater to command such a high price. Will this new V series cost millions upon millions of dollars to make each episode?
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Old 07-11-2009, 05:28 PM
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I guess to put it simply, why are movie special effects so much more expensive than Tv effects? I don't think they are that much greater to command such a high price. Will this new V series cost millions upon millions of dollars to make each episode?
Considering TNG cost 1 million each I'm sure they do. And yes there is a big difference between the work that goes into a 2 hr Trek movie vs a TV pilot for example.
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Old 07-11-2009, 06:48 PM
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Considering TNG cost 1 million each I'm sure they do. And yes there is a big difference between the work that goes into a 2 hr Trek movie vs a TV pilot for example.
Okay, let me make it even more simple. Given one frame, just one frame, one shot of a ship or some other computer generated image, why are movie effects so much more expensive? I know the detail is usually higher since the "large screen" is literally larger and you can see more detail. So that must account for some of the higher costs.

Now I know times have changed, but let's make a comparison. You say TNG cost 1 million per episode. What would that cost today? 2 million? 3 million? At 3 million per episode you could make 50 episodes for the cost of this last movie. Doesn't that seem like wayyyyy too much for one movie? Are all those computer generated ships really that much more expensive then the model versions? I thought computers were supposed to make things easier, cheaper, and faster!

I suppose another aspect that helps keep costs down for TV is the initial cost of building sets and models can be spread across many episodes, but what about all the other sets that are used in only one episode?
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Old 07-11-2009, 07:00 PM
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CGI cost alot for one reason and one reason only.
Animators and Render time.

Look at the credits and see how many people are part of the project
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Old 07-12-2009, 12:15 AM
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DS9 was 1.5 million per. Law and Order today costs 4 million per episode. These things are plenty expensive, even the ones that dont use any digital effects, lifesized models (vipers and such) or highly specialized sets like spaceship bridges or hanger bays.

Computers do make things faster and cheaper and all of that. That is IF you continue to make the same things as before and dont do anything new. I posted this on another thread but if you want to remake Tron with all its ground breaking CGI exactly the same there are plenty of people on this board that could do it at home these days. To break into the industry they will all work cheap as well. Make computers better and more powerful and movies will find a way to use it.

And of course movies in general are much bigger productions in themselves requiring a huge number of people compared to a TV show for example. Lots of on-location shooting requiring brand new and expensive sets (Bud brewery not withstanding).

But yes as Saquist said: check out the end credits of BSG and then check out the end credits of Star Trek. That in itself tells you were all that money goes and why its so much more expensive.
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  #18  
Old 07-12-2009, 02:14 AM
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As I understand it, it's mostly computer power required for rendering and detailing. But I thought there's also photo-realism which is becoming a bigger part of the picture.

CGI that doesn't look like CGI is the name of the game. In Transformers those robots are so realistic you'd think they were physically on set.

Plus in the case of the new film, everything was being reconcieved and rebuilt from scratch. There were no sets to be put in storage that could be pulled out and rebuilt. Location shooting costs more in California (which is why Vancouver doubles up more and more frequently these days, and looks like V was possibly shot there) than other places. All the effects were being redone from scratch.

There was a lot more pre-production and conceptual design time on the new film as well, which all adds to the costs before you even start shooting.

In terms of the V trailer, the effects look very good, but not quite feature film quality. You can still tell it's CGI at work. I think the most recent show that got closest to actual movie quality effects was BSG. Although a huge amount of DS9 is still impressive ten years on. Of course, back then DS9 was a very well budgeted show.


(Although - Eastwick, Cougar Town, Happy Town and The Forgotten look interesting on the schedule as well.)
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Last edited by kevin : 07-12-2009 at 02:42 AM.
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  #19  
Old 07-12-2009, 05:45 AM
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DS9 was 1.5 million per. Law and Order today costs 4 million per episode.
really??

why is Law and Order so expensive?
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  #20  
Old 07-12-2009, 05:50 AM
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I couldn't help notice the parallels. The trailer says "the visitors promised us hope and change". Could "V" be an allegorical attack on the fandom surrounding Obama's election? Or the perceived failure of his administration to follow through with their promises? I remember originally, Kenneth Johnson used "V" as an allegory on the dangers of totalitarian government, Nazi Germany was the model for the "visitors" style of rule.
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