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  #11  
Old 06-30-2009, 11:05 AM
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kevin kevin is offline
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I can see it now

Alien race - 'Brain, Brain - we want Brains!!!'

Kirk - 'um......Spock?......wanna, you know.....step in here?'
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2009, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Vaako View Post
If you ask me, I think that trying to "humanize" everything and everyone is a weakness of Trek. Aliens are called aliens for a reason. We should stop making them act as though part of them is human. That's why I really liked the Hirogens on Voyager: they had no humanity in them at all and that's what made them stand apart from some of the other species. Can't say they were evil either because hunting other species was part of their social construct, if you will.
You have a point, but Trek at it's best has been about the human condition. The use of alien races to depict various aspects of human nature was just a vehicle for good story telling. If we start getting into pure "what would an alien think/do?" type mentality, then will it still be Trek?

Some people say Trek is all about the characters. While I agree the characters are the core for us the viewer to latch onto and to care about, they too are vehicles for great story telling. Thought provoking stories and social commentary are what made Trek great, for me anyway. If everyone is satisfied with pulse phasers and booming warp effects, maybe they should just slap in a Star Wars DVD rather than ask for Trek to become a near clone.
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Last edited by MrQ1701 : 06-30-2009 at 11:51 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2009, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Vaako View Post
If you ask me, I think that trying to "humanize" everything and everyone is a weakness of Trek. Aliens are called aliens for a reason. We should stop making them act as though part of them is human. That's why I really liked the Hirogens on Voyager: they had no humanity in them at all and that's what made them stand apart from some of the other species. Can't say they were evil either because hunting other species was part of their social construct, if you will.
Humans and the UFP are democratic and value life above all. Klingons are aristocrats who value death above all.

What would happen in 90% of sci-fi? Right, the good humans would shoot the evil Klingons in the a**.
What happens in Trek? Humans and Klingons have lethal conflicts, but the Federation tries to peacefully coexist with these warrior aliens. That's quintessential Trek.

By the way, the Klingons are not humanized. They are portrayed as the very opposite of humans in these two important aspects I mentioned. The key to live together with them in a fragile peace is to not humanize them, to accept them and their culture for what they are, something not-human. (Anyone remember the lines during the dinner scene in TUC, human rights and homosapiens club only?)

Last edited by horatio : 06-30-2009 at 11:52 AM.
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  #14  
Old 06-30-2009, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Vaako View Post
If you ask me, I think that trying to "humanize" everything and everyone is a weakness of Trek. Aliens are called aliens for a reason. We should stop making them act as though part of them is human. That's why I really liked the Hirogens on Voyager: they had no humanity in them at all and that's what made them stand apart from some of the other species. Can't say they were evil either because hunting other species was part of their social construct, if you will.
It's a fine line to balance. To use non-human races to create a metaphor that works for a facet of human behaviour, while trying to bear in mind they are an alien culture, so 'human' need not apply by definition.

It would be nice to see a race again that really couldn't care less about human values or the like.

That can also be a way to explore human values and ways - by questioning why they even exist in the first place, why we need to observe them or maintain them.
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  #15  
Old 06-30-2009, 12:02 PM
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Well, it takes time to develop the culture of a new species, that better suits TV Trek. But what about going back to the roots? I liked the idea of the not so friendly Andorians and Tellarites, two founding members of the UFP (!!!), in "Journey to Babel" as well as the continuation of exploring these two races (plus the Denobulans who were friendly but unlike humans in several aspects) in ENT.
Again a key Trek theme, you don't need to be alike to coexist and cooperate.

Among the antagonistic aliens, Klingons and Romulans are just best developed and that's why they get used in all Trek incarnations.
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Old 06-30-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
It's a fine line to balance. To use non-human races to create a metaphor that works for a facet of human behaviour, while trying to bear in mind they are an alien culture, so 'human' need not apply by definition.

It would be nice to see a race again that really couldn't care less about human values or the like.

That can also be a way to explore human values and ways - by questioning why they even exist in the first place, why we need to observe them or maintain them.
It would be interesting to see a villain or a race of villains who are not evil exactly or out for revenge, but who are simply uninterested in the consequences of their actions to achieve their goal (whatever that goal may be). Soran was like that, I wouldn't mind seeing that explored again.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2009, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Well, it takes time to develop the culture of a new species, that better suits TV Trek. But what about going back to the roots? I liked the idea of the not so friendly Andorians and Tellarites, two founding members of the UFP (!!!), in "Journey to Babel" as well as the continuation of exploring these two races (plus the Denobulans who were friendly but unlike humans in several aspects) in ENT.
Again a key Trek theme, you don't need to be alike to coexist and cooperate.

Among the antagonistic aliens, Klingons and Romulans are just best developed and that's why they get used in all Trek incarnations.
And this is the key thing - there are many aspects of Star Trek that are the ones which are supposed to set it apart from other franchises that in fact do work better on TV Trek, not in film Trek.

A film gets designed to be a crowd-pleaser, a TV series has greater luxury to develop and explore these issues and metaphors.

If it wants to.
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2009, 12:11 PM
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I second that. Soran was a great villain, perhaps because he was realistic?
"I don't give a damn" is more often the source of evil than "I wanna see the world burn".
I have to say, I never found Soran a great villain. Maybe because in part he wasn't even being bad for the sake of it. He was just driven to do whatever it took to return to The Nexus.

(Of course all he really needed was a small ship and an engine that would get him close enough to be taken into the Nexus as the ship was torn apart - all the scheme he actually went to was totally ridiculous and unwarranted.

And they say the new film is dumb! )
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2009, 12:16 PM
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That movie was a mixed bag for me, I liked Soran as a villain but found some of the dialogue to be a bit heavy handed( a flaw in trek from time to time).
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