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  #11  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:39 AM
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To be fair, however, the red-haired female commander that Grace Lee Whitney played in Star Trek III wasn't listed as Rand in the credits, but merely as "Woman In Cafeteria," so its plausible that the character wasn't Rand (but just someone who bore a hell of a resemblance--ala Nick Locarno and Thomas Paris). Omitting that character does make Rand's elevation through the ranks more consistent, especially given the supposed elapsed timeframe between Star Trek IV and Star Trek VI for Rand to be mustanged.
Meh - they mucked up Rand's rank in STIV; it was clearly meant to be her in STIII.
Not necessarily. IIRC, it was meant to be more of a cameo for Grace Lee Whitney than for the character of Rand. Otherwise, they would have listed her appearance as Rand in the movie's credits rather than "Woman In Cafeteria."
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I think she might even have been listed as Commander Rand in the cast list in STIV.
Unfortunately, the reverse problem in Star Trek III exists here. While Grace Lee Whitney is indeed listed as "Commander Rand" in the credits, in the movie she is seen wearing an enlisted uniform with master chief petty officer insignia, which is actually more consistent with her last appearance in TMP and her next appearance in Star Trek VI (she was wearing lieutenant junior grade insignia there).

Like O'Brien, Rand's rank and insignia has been largely inconsistent as well and it continued up until her final appearance in the VOY episode "Flashback".

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As head nurse, Chapel should probably have been a Lt(jg) in TOS but she had no band on her uniform sleeve so she was only an Ensign at best.
Not necessarily. As I said earlier, Chapel's uniform was a variant like McCoy's short-sleeved sickbay uniform and did not sport rank insignia as well. It is likely that Chapel was a lieutenant junior grade in TOS, given her position as head nurse.

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I think traditionally officers have to attend the acadamy but we have precedent in the real world military and even in Wesley Crusher for field commissions.
People can also become officers by attending Officer Candidate School (OCS). These officers were frequently nicknamed "90-day wonders" as a reference to how long their training was.

In "Flashback," Rand mentioned that she received "officer training" sometime prior to being assigned to Excelsior and earned her commission as an ensign three years later. It kind of implies that Rand either attended a very extended version of OCS or a slightly abbreviated program at Starfleet Academy.
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I think Chapel's advancement was by field commission.
More likely by her becoming a doctor herself as McCoy mentioned in TMP.
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O'Brien was initially a lieutenant with two pips on his collar. They called him chief because he was transporter chief. When they knew he was going into DS9 they retconned him to be a CPO as they wanted to get some mileage out of the experienced non-com and the inexperienced superior officer (Bashir).
O'Brien's rank and insignia is the source of much debate.

-Originally, O'Brien was the conn (helm) officer in TNG. Later, he was a security officer. Both times he wore ensign's insignia.

-It wasn't until after he became the transporter chief that O'Brien started wearing lieutenant insignia and was even referred to as such in one episode. However, he is later referred to as a chief petty officer (while still wearing lieutenant insignia).

-Later in TNG, O'Brien is seen wearing a single hollow pip which he will wear well until after his transfer to DS9. In a later DS9 episode, O'Brien officially declares his rank as "chief of operations." He is also called at one point as "senior chief specialist."

-Finally, O'Brien is given a new insignia--a small embroidered striker patch with three chevrons and two small dots. While he is still referred to simply as chief, the insignia is actually consistant with that of a senior chief specialist in the US Navy.

(Whew!)
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Last edited by Commodore : 06-25-2009 at 03:22 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-25-2009, 03:59 AM
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Well McCoy joined up as a qualified doctor and took officer training. In Chapel's case though she joined the Enterprise at the last minute when she found out that the ship was on its way to Exo 3 as part of its mission. She wasn't an acadamy graduate. In fairness though, she is a qualified biologist (and probably qualified in paleobiology, archaeology, and anthropology in order to help with Korby's archeological medical research) so she would be qualified for officer training if she chose to take it. It's just that her background implies that she wasn't an officer at the time they attended Exo 3 (she was considering leaving the ship immediately afterwards and I'm not sure that officers would be allowed to do that). Field commission makes the most sense.

Nurse Ogawa was a head nurse and only an ensign now that I think of it.

Rand and Obrien can only be explained away as Uhura suggests - "Alternate timeline!" It's as good as Lucy Lawless' saying "A wizard did it."

One of the things I disliked most about the new film was the suggestion that a cadet could become a captain instantly, no matter how good he seems. A captain needs experience. Fast-track him to full lieutenant - maybe. Make him a first officer - quite possible. Elevate him through the ranks rapidly - if he proves to be that good, then why not? Put him in charge of the Federation flagship with one mission under his belt - Are you crazy?

As written, I never thought that Chekov should even have been promoted to Commander either. He was a fairly decent planetary scientist, a good navigator, a hopeless security chief, and totally unsuited to being in command of the bridge. Uhura - hell yeah - intelligent, professional, and competent. Chapel - even more so than McCoy - scientifically able and very cool under pressure. Chekov? Useless.

Last edited by Pauln6 : 06-25-2009 at 04:17 AM.
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  #13  
Old 06-25-2009, 04:09 AM
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There's no reason to assume that Chapel earned a field commission of any kind. She simply could have went through Starfleet Medical and earned a genuine commission as an ensign upon becoming a RN. By the time of TOS, she was a lieutenant junior grade and head nurse aboard the Enterprise.
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  #14  
Old 06-25-2009, 04:45 AM
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There's no reason to assume that Chapel earned a field commission of any kind. She simply could have went through Starfleet Medical and earned a genuine commission as an ensign upon becoming a RN. By the time of TOS, she was a lieutenant junior grade and head nurse aboard the Enterprise.
Her background in 'What Are Little Girls Made of?' suggests that she was a research biologist helping Korby rather than a Starfleet graduate. They also suggest that she signed up in a hurry when she found out that Enterprise was heading for Exo 3. That also doesn't suggest that she was a Starfleet graduate. I agree, it is arguable that she spent 4 years training with Starfleet in the hopes of one day searching for Korby but that seems more of a stretch to me. She was primed to leave the ship as soon as the Exo 3 mission was over. That doesn't sound like an officer either. Also, I think McCoy refers to her as a member of his staff rather than his head nurse, so she might not even have been head nurse at that stage in the same way that McCoy wasn't CMO during the first year of the mission.

She might have been a Lieutenant (jg) but there is no evidence to support that on her uniform and Alyssa Ogawa was an ensign for years on a much larger ship so there is no strict requirement for her to be a higher rank.

Memory Alpha has listed her as a lieutenant(jg) but Star Trek.com lists her as a brevet. Memory Alpha does say that she was officially promoted to Lieutenant in the Animated Series though. Howver, I'd say that also implies she was an ensign in TOS, Lt(jg) in TAS, and Lt in TMP.
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  #15  
Old 06-25-2009, 04:53 AM
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There is this from startreklibrary.com, although it leaves out TAS:


History records:
History records:
- 2266:
As brevet ensign, signed aboard U.S.S. Enterprise of Capt. James T. Kirk as nurse.
- 2267:
Became head nurse to Enterprise Chief Medical Officer Leonard McCoy, M.D.
- 2271:
After five-year mission, promotion to lieutenant and completion of medical degree, named CMO to Capt. Will Decker on refit U.S.S. Enterprise until relinquishing title to McCoy for V'Ger crisis.
- 2286:
As a commander, directed Starfleet Emergency Operations in wake of whale-song aliens.

Mind you, I don't think there is much in the way of hard evidence to support this history either apart from what we've been discussing. If she's in the next movie, I would hope she is a Lt(jg) and that they make some use of her wider qualifications.

Last edited by Pauln6 : 06-25-2009 at 06:35 AM.
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  #16  
Old 06-25-2009, 07:26 AM
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Her background in 'What Are Little Girls Made of?' suggests that she was a research biologist helping Korby rather than a Starfleet graduate.
Actually, the dialogue from "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" clearly states that she left a career as a research biologist in order to join Starfleet.
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They also suggest that she signed up in a hurry when she found out that Enterprise was heading for Exo 3.
That's incorrect. Chapel joined Starfleet in the hopes that she would eventually land on a ship that would visit Exo III. It would eventually be the Enterprise, but there's actually no onscreen evidence to suggest that it was Chapel's first assignment.
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I agree, it is arguable that she spent 4 years training with Starfleet in the hopes of one day searching for Korby but that seems more of a stretch to me.
It would fit what real army and navy nurses would have to do. They receive their commission after they complete their nursing program. Those with an already established scientific background (like Chapel, for instance) can probably breeze through the program in less than four years.
Quote:
There is this from startreklibrary.com, although it leaves out TAS:


History records:
History records:
- 2266:
As brevet ensign, signed aboard U.S.S. Enterprise of Capt. James T. Kirk as nurse.

Unfortunately, startreklibrary.com is not canon and there is no onscreen material to support that she was a brevet ensign.
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She was primed to leave the ship as soon as the Exo 3 mission was over.
No, she was tempted to leave Starfleet altogether given what happened on Exo III, but then she wouldn't have been the first (nor the last) Starfleet officer to have contemplated resignation after a difficult mission.
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Also, I think McCoy refers to her as a member of his staff rather than his head nurse, so she might not even have been head nurse at that stage in the same way that McCoy wasn't CMO during the first year of the mission.
Head nurses are considered members of a chief medical officer's staff, so that's just an issue of semantics there.
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She might have been a Lieutenant (jg) but there is no evidence to support that on her uniform and Alyssa Ogawa was an ensign for years on a much larger ship so there is no strict requirement for her to be a higher rank.
But Nurse Ogawa didn't become the Enterprise-D's head nurse until season six of TNG and was promoted to lieutenant as a result. And once again, Chapel's uniform didn't have any rank because it was a variant uniform--no black collar, and an Enterprise insignia featuring a red medical cross.
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Memory Alpha has listed her as a lieutenant(jg) but Star Trek.com lists her as a brevet.
I would go with Memory Alpha since Star Trek.com articles have occasionally included bits of fanon here and there. Startrek.com may be the official website, but it's not the best source for canon material (official websites rarely are in my experience).

Additionally, the term "brevet" applies not to a rank but to a position, which makes me further doubt the authenicity of "brevet ensign".
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Memory Alpha does say that she was officially promoted to Lieutenant in the Animated Series though. Howver, I'd say that also implies she was an ensign in TOS, Lt(jg) in TAS, and Lt in TMP.
I disagree. It's more plausible that Chapel was a lieutenant j.g. in TOS, then a lieutenant in TMP.
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  #17  
Old 06-25-2009, 08:48 AM
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Unfortunately, startreklibrary.com is not canon and there is no onscreen material to support that she was a brevet ensign.

Head nurses are considered members of a chief medical officer's staff, so that's just an issue of semantics there.

But Nurse Ogawa didn't become the Enterprise-D's head nurse until season six of TNG and was promoted to lieutenant as a result. And once again, Chapel's uniform didn't have any rank because it was a variant uniform--no black collar, and an Enterprise insignia featuring a red medical cross.

I would go with Memory Alpha since Star Trek.com articles have occasionally included bits of fanon here and there. Startrek.com may be the official website, but it's not the best source for canon material (official websites rarely are in my experience).
Heh yup - there's insufficient on screen evidence either way! Even the experts disagree (my old FASA set had her listed as an ensign but then also listed Rand as an ensign, which is clearly wrong, and a Lt-commander at STIV time, which is open to debate). There's also nothing on screen to suggest that Chapel is head nurse in season one nor any canon to explain why a long-sleeved variant uniform would have no rank on its sleeves like everybody else. Are you sure McCoy's long-sleeved uniform had no rank on his sleeves? I thought it did.

The upshot is they didn't care enough about poor old Chapel to flesh her out that much!
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  #18  
Old 06-25-2009, 08:58 AM
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Are you sure McCoy's long-sleeved uniform had no rank on his sleeves? I thought it did.
It was the short-sleeved doctor's variant he and Dr. M'Benga wore in sickbay. Neither one had rank insignia.

Additionally, there was never any rank insignia on the red and blue work coveralls seen worn by various personnel aboard the Enterprise, yet Transporter Chief Kyle was addressed as lieutenant on more than one occasion.

Only the standard duty uniforms seemed to feature any rank insignia. Sickbay personnel variants, technician coveralls, and even the ceremonial formal uniforms were all free of rank insignia.
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  #19  
Old 06-25-2009, 09:02 AM
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Not as bad as the inconsistent TMP uniforms though. You have to look at the colour of those little badges to tell what department people are from and the colours of the uniforms are completely random.
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:17 AM
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Believe it or not, they did try to come up with a color scheme for the TMP uniforms. The only problem was that it was kind of hard to follow and most people didn't understand it (I know I sure didn't at first):
Bluish-grey: Command personnel
Beige: Bridge personnel
Brown: Non-bridge personnel
White: Technicians
Olive-grey: Planetary/Starfleet HQ personnel
http://www.st-spike.org/pages/unifor...7/uniforms.htm
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