The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > Enlisted personnel in ST?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:34 PM
Kiko Kea Kiko Kea is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 464
Default Enlisted personnel in ST?

I'm trying to recall if there was ever a mention of enlisted personnel in Star Trek? Can't remember one in TOS. I only saw a season or two of TNG, but wasn't there a "Chief" in it?

Seems that everyone in TOS, which is what I'm mainly concerned with, was referred to by officer rank or 'Mr.", which, if I'm not mistaken, is generally used with officers.

I'm assuming that there had to be an enlisted portion of Star Trek. Can anyone shed light on this?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:37 PM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

The first character who comes to mind outwith the main characters of any series is the TNG episode 'The Drumhead' and Simon Tarses, who I think in conversation with Captain Picard describes how he was so keen to get into space he didn't go through the Academy but enlisted instead.

Apparently it gets you on a ship faster.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-24-2009, 12:57 PM
KJTrek's Avatar
KJTrek KJTrek is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 2,608
Default

I can't think of a specific instance, but there have been plenty of characters referred to as "Crewman" if I'm not mistaken. I would assume that refers to an enlisted person, rather than an officer. Also, I think there would have to be some sort of limit on how many officers a starship can handle, or at least the chain of command could.

On a different angle, In Star Trek XI Pike tells Kirk to "enlist with Starfleet"... idk what significance that has in pertinence to this conversation but just something that came to mind.
__________________
Good and bad men are each less so than they seem.
- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-24-2009, 01:26 PM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Crewmen is indeed generally regarded as the lowest-ranked enlisted personnel in Starfleet. Above them are petty officers and above petty officers are chiefs (short for chief petty officers). The specific grades tend to vary from one era of Trek to the other, but that's generally how they go.

In TOS, we saw a Crewman Jackson ("Catspaw") and a Crewman Green ("The Man Trap"). The only thing was that there was no real distinction between the uniforms for crewmen and ensigns. Likewise, both officers and enlisted could also wear the rank-free branch-colored work coveralls seen throughout the series.

In TNG, DS9, and VOY, there was once again no distinction in uniforms between officers and enlisted, but the general rule of thumb is if you don't see any rank insignia on their collar, then they're enlisted.

The TOS movies--in particular, Star Treks II-VI--featured the only Starfleet uniforms with specific versions for officers and enlisted, with rank insignia to match.

ENT started off with enlisted personnel with their own rank insignia (such as those worn by Crewman Cutler), but this fell into disuse when it became apparently too much of a bother for the wardrobe department to keep up with...
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:06 PM
Pauln6's Avatar
Pauln6 Pauln6 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 476
Default

Yeomen, crewmen, specialists, and chiefs appeared in TOS. We see far fewer crewmen in TNG, which was always rather odd. Yeoman Rand is probably the most famous enlisted crew member after Chief O'Brien (although he was retconned from a lieutenant around season 6). Rand becomes a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, and then takes officer training later on. Her uniforms have been inconsistent (officer in STIII, CPO in STIV, Lieutenant-commander in STVI).

Generally, command school personel & pilots are officers, as are principle bridge crew, doctors, and department heads. A lot of engineers, technicians, security guards, nurses, and science staff will be enlisted personnel but Trek is a bit snobby, especially in recent years, and focuses almost exclusively on officers. Nurse Chapel was a brevet, which was a provisional ensign, and she was a full lieutenant by TMP.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:48 PM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauln6 View Post
Rand becomes a Chief Petty Officer in TMP, and then takes officer training later on. Her uniforms have been inconsistent (officer in STIII, CPO in STIV, Lieutenant-commander in STVI).
To be fair, however, the red-haired female commander that Grace Lee Whitney played in Star Trek III wasn't listed as Rand in the credits, but merely as "Woman In Cafeteria," so its plausible that the character wasn't Rand (but just someone who bore a hell of a resemblance--ala Nick Locarno and Thomas Paris). Omitting that character does make Rand's elevation through the ranks more consistent, especially given the supposed elapsed timeframe between Star Trek IV and Star Trek VI for Rand to be mustanged.
Quote:
Nurse Chapel was a brevet, which was a provisional ensign, and she was a full lieutenant by TMP.
Nurse Chapel's rank was never specified during TOS (her uniform was considered a variant like McCoy's short-sleeved variant), but head nurses aboard large naval vessels have held the rank of at least lieutenant junior grade.
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-24-2009, 03:07 PM
Pauln6's Avatar
Pauln6 Pauln6 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 476
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
To be fair, however, the red-haired female commander that Grace Lee Whitney played in Star Trek III wasn't listed as Rand in the credits, but merely as "Woman In Cafeteria," so its plausible that the character wasn't Rand (but just someone who bore a hell of a resemblance--ala Nick Locarno and Thomas Paris). Omitting that character does make Rand's elevation through the ranks more consistent, especially given the supposed elapsed timeframe between Star Trek IV and Star Trek VI for Rand to be mustanged.

Nurse Chapel's rank was never specified during TOS (her uniform was considered a variant like McCoy's short-sleeved variant), but head nurses aboard large naval vessels have held the rank of at least lieutenant junior grade.
Meh - they mucked up Rand's rank in STIV; it was clearly meant to be her in STIII. I think she might even have been listed as Commander Rand in the cast list in STIV. Lets just assume she was drafted in for duty at the last minute and wore the only uniform available!

As head nurse, Chapel should probably have been a Lt(jg) in TOS but she had no band on her uniform sleeve so she was only an Ensign at best. I think it is unofficial that she was a brevet but it was assumed because it didn't look like she'd spent a whole lot of time at the acadamy before signing up and it may even have been a field promotion after What are Little Girls made of? Basically, she was a non-starfleet scientist with a nursing qualification. I always felt it was a shame that they didn't make more use of her science background.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-24-2009, 05:31 PM
Kiko Kea Kiko Kea is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Paradise
Posts: 464
Default

Thanks for all the information- I didn't think about references to "crewmen" being enlisted, but that makes sense.

As for Chapel, she could have joined SF without attending the Academy. Surely, not everyone had to go through the Academy- that doesn't seem feasible or practical.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:09 PM
Wagon Train Wagon Train is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 22
Default

From my recollection, Miles O'Brien was pretty much the most 'covered' Enlisted man. They had an episode on TNG, and even had an episode of DS9 where he referred himself as a Noncom when comparing himself to the other traditional Starfleet officers.

If I recall correctly, he enlisted because of Cardassian actions he was affected by, pre-Bajoran occupation as they were starting to unleash their militaristic side.

As a matter of fact, I think it was the TNG episode with Benjamin Maxell doing terrorist attacks on Cardassian ships. O'Brien was the guy they had try to talk him down, as he and Keiko were becoming close to 'main cast' players at that point in the series.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-24-2009, 11:45 PM
Pauln6's Avatar
Pauln6 Pauln6 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 476
Default

I think traditionally officers have to attend the acadamy but we have precedent in the real world military and even in Wesley Crusher for field commissions. I think Chapel's advancement was by field commission.

O'Brien was initially a lieutenant with two pips on his collar. They called him chief because he was transporter chief. When they knew he was going into DS9 they retconned him to be a CPO as they wanted to get some mileage out of the experienced non-com and the inexperienced superior officer (Bashir). It worked quite well but the fact that they had to retcon him shows that the writers don't really have a lot of time for the enlisted personel. Almost all supporting characters in the TNG era were officers.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:36 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.