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  #11  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:48 PM
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chator chator is offline
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yes, you are right! Nero and his gang were on a mission of genocide. Kirk wasn't. But he didn't have to blow them up. He could have just let them get sucked back into the black hole and escaped, or blew up the black hole while sparing the crew to bring them on trial for genocide against Vulcan. I think that might have given Spock and other Vulcans more closure and been more humanitarian. By blowing them up, i think Kirk proves he doesn't belong in the Federation, which Pike says is a "humanitarian and peace-keeping armada."
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2009, 04:57 PM
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He offered aid, they did not want it. Period. Would you have risked your life, risked to get sucked into the black hole, risked to die on a ship which might break apart, risk to get shot by a Romulan?
Where is the difference between blowing them up and letting them get killed by the black hole? There is none, Kirk just played it safe. Don't forget that the Narada could have survived, got sucked into the black hole and reappeared at another point in time.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2009, 05:29 PM
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This is like debating Janeway's decision to destroy the array in the Caretaker episode.
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2009, 06:33 PM
TamarinaDC TamarinaDC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
yes, you are right! Nero and his gang were on a mission of genocide. Kirk wasn't. But he didn't have to blow them up. He could have just let them get sucked back into the black hole and escaped, or blew up the black hole while sparing the crew to bring them on trial for genocide against Vulcan. I think that might have given Spock and other Vulcans more closure and been more humanitarian. By blowing them up, i think Kirk proves he doesn't belong in the Federation, which Pike says is a "humanitarian and peace-keeping armada."
With all due respect, did we see the same film? Kirk did fire on the Narada after they refused his aid, but the Narada was already being drawn into the anomaly. Whatever damage the Enterprise did couln't have helped the Narada, but it was more like adding insult to injury- if you're being sucked into a black hole, then phasers and photon torpedoes are pretty much the least of your problems.

And I'm pretty sure that even if the Romulan homeworld was destroyed in the TOS timeline, there were other Romulan worlds or colonies where other romulans survived. I happen to be a big fan of the Trek novels by Diane Duane, whose depictions of the "Rihannsu"make logical sense. In her universe, the Romulans have several planets with significant populations, not just Romulus. As I said before, the Romulans are aggressive colonizers, and I am sure that they had additional planets. If the Vulcans had been a little more willing to leave Vulcan, they might have had more planets as well, but they did not desire empire, and suffered for it. Sorry if I'm repeating myself- I just don't like to see Kirk accused of genocide (or Xenocide) when the crew of the Narada drove themselves off the proverbial cliff.

Last edited by TamarinaDC : 06-23-2009 at 06:34 PM. Reason: mistyped something
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2009, 09:21 PM
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Anyone have any idea how Worf became a General in the Klingon Empire? Was there any hint of this development in prior novels, or stories? I haven't followed the character that closely, but this seems like a strange development, due to Worf's chosen path of joining Starfleet. Also, he seemed quite vicious, killing Romulans without much of a struggle with his conscience. I wonder if he survived Nero's attack, if we'll find out whether he lived.
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2009, 09:29 AM
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I can't find the place where I read it (sighs!!) but I have read that Orci or Kurtzman stated that the reason Kirk ordered fire on the Narada after Nero refused help was to ensure that the destruction of the so it ship didn't pass through in some fashion (like it did the first time) and emerge somewhere else in time.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:00 AM
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I seem to remember that as well. But obviously it wasnt in the movie.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2009, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
Anyone have any idea how Worf became a General in the Klingon Empire? Was there any hint of this development in prior novels, or stories? I haven't followed the character that closely, but this seems like a strange development, due to Worf's chosen path of joining Starfleet. Also, he seemed quite vicious, killing Romulans without much of a struggle with his conscience. I wonder if he survived Nero's attack, if we'll find out whether he lived.
He was supposed to be an Ambassador in DS9, then he was on the Enterprise E for the movies, now he is a general for storyline effect. This is Trek so storyline jumping is fair game. For being vicious, i do not think that Worf was incapable of savagery. Infact he was always portrayed as being a cold hearted pragmatist. So a Romulan vessel blowing up allied ships is cause enough to be ruthless in the pursuit of its destruction.

He survives as Nero says he is alive as he beams him over, I am sure Crusher will handle it from there on after :P
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2009, 06:46 PM
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He later gives an interview to Jake (STO)
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2009, 06:54 PM
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That was actually one of my problems with Countdown, it seemed very forced the way all of these familiar faces show up, one of whom should be dead (Data). It was like fan fiction in that way. A Federation ship shows up, it happenes to be Enterprise, Klingons show up, happens to be Worf. Ambassedor to Vulcan, happens to be Picard.

I like Countdown for what it was, I don't mean to bash it. But that ascpect of it did rub me the wrong way a bit.
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