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View Poll Results: Is the Alternate Federation More Powerful Now Than in the Prime Universe?
Yes 11 18.64%
No 15 25.42%
Insufficient Information 33 55.93%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2009, 06:20 AM
Star Trek Viewer Star Trek Viewer is offline
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Question Compared With the Prime Universe....

As a results of the events in the movie, by the time that Kirk is made captain, do you think that the Federation is more powerful than its known neighbors, or less powerful?

Consider the differences:

1. The Federation has larger ships than in the Prime Universe. More accurately, it has at least one much larger ship, the Alternate Enterprise. (However, according to the fan site ditl.org, the Alternate Universe Constitution is considerably less powerful in its defensive systems (shields) than the Prime Universe's and much less powerful overall. See http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?fedconstitution versus http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?tmpconstitution )

2. [IGNORE THIS PARAGRAPH. -- Edit.] Romulus is gone, meaning that one of the Federation's main enemies is essentially destroyed.

3. Vulcan is gone, but Spock Prime has knowledge of the future, with all the historical and technological advantages that this conveys. Further, it seems that the Earth has been the senior partner in the Federation for some time anyway.

Please take this poll and provide your thoughts. Thanks.

Last edited by Star Trek Viewer : 06-22-2009 at 07:28 AM. Reason: Corrected major blooper.
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Trek Viewer View Post
As a results of the events in the movie, by the time that Kirk is made captain, do you think that the Federation is more powerful than its known neighbors, or less powerful?

Consider the differences:

1. The Federation has larger ships than in the Prime Universe. More accurately, it has at least one much larger ship, the Alternate Enterprise. (However, according to the fan site ditl.org, the Alternate Universe Constitution is considerably less powerful in its defensive systems (shields) than the Prime Universe's and much less powerful overall. See http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?fedconstitution versus http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?tmpconstitution )

2. Romulus is gone, meaning that one of the Federation's main enemies is essentially destroyed.

3. Vulcan is gone, but Spock Prime has knowledge of the future, with all the historical and technological advantages that this conveys. Further, it seems that the Earth has been the senior partner in the Federation for some time anyway.

Please take this poll and provide your thoughts. Thanks.
Point number two is incorrect. Romulus is NOT gone in the JJverse. In Countdown we know Romulus is destroyed in the Prime universe during the 24th century. In the JJverse Romulus still exists. Don't forget Nero and Spock traveled not only into another reality they also went back in time to a point PRIOR to the destruction of Romulus. It is yet to be known if history in the Prime universe will be repeated in the JJverse.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:22 AM
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Okay, so first thing's first, Romulus is gone in the 'Prime Universe' and it yet exists in the alternate. What are we comparing? The realities are entirely independent. Is the Federation stronger than its counterparts in the 24th century without Romulus in the picture? Is this your question?

Secondly, Nimoy's Spock has his work cut out for him re-building Vulcan culture. His involvement in early technological advancement is not only unethical, it's illogical.

Finally, it's proposed the engineer responsible for the TMP refit was assigned to the Enterprise from conception this time around. His vision and structure was limited to technology decades prior to his Constitution refit in TMP.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:28 AM
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Sorry, everyone. I was wrong. Thanks for your comments. Romulus is NOT gone in the Alternate Universe and I had my facts confused. I will change my initial posting accordingly.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Quantum Alert View Post
Okay, so first thing's first, Romulus is gone in the 'Prime Universe' and it yet exists in the alternate. What are we comparing? The realities are entirely independent. Is the Federation stronger than its counterparts in the 24th century without Romulus in the picture? Is this your question?

Secondly, Nimoy's Spock has his work cut out for him re-building Vulcan culture. His involvement in early technological advancement is not only unethical, it's illogical.
Why? The universe put him in this position. What does he owe the universe?

Quote:
Finally, it's proposed the engineer responsible for the TMP refit was assigned to the Enterprise from conception this time around. His vision and structure was limited to technology decades prior to his Constitution refit in TMP.
Where is this proposed, and what is its effect?
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:44 AM
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Secondly, Nimoy's Spock has his work cut out for him re-building Vulcan culture. His involvement in early technological advancement is not only unethical, it's illogical.
Ahhh...this debate again! I wonder if we should find the old thread....

I see NO reason why Spock Prime should not share his knowledge with this JJverse. He isn't altering the timeline. Some would say "fate" placed him in this alternate reality, so what he knows and what he does ARE part of it. I think it would be unethical to allow people to die (say is a battle) when you could have saved them by giving them better shield technology. I don't buy the idea that it would further destabalize the area by provoking an arms race. The Federation's enemies and potential enemies are already doing what they can to advance their own technology. Any technological edge the Federation would gain from Spock Prime's knowledge should be fully utilized. I am confident it would be used to promote peace and stability.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:08 AM
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After all those ships were destroyed... hm.
And who knows what damage the Narada caused on its way to Earth...
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:18 AM
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Well there tazzy-devil-transporters are pretty crap.

They can't even transport you when the ground suddenly gives way beneath you feet.
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:21 AM
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Well there tazzy-devil-transporters are pretty crap.

They can't even transport you when the ground suddenly gives way beneath you feet.
True, very true. The JJverse seemed to make transporters even more of a redheaded stepchild than ENT ever did!! They are slow and and can't lock onto anything without it standing very still!! It seemed that way anyway. Could have been the interference from the drilling beam, when it comes to Spock's mom anyway. When it comes to Kirk and Sulu falling, that is NOT an excuse because the beam had been turned off. Imagine, if two people falling are moving too fast for the transporter to track and lock onto without a Wesley like genius at the controls, then how the heck does anything moving in space ever get beamed aboard a ship?

Don't forget they can now transport light years away!! I think the next movie will show massive transporter stations that beam you from one planet to another! (sarcasm intended)
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Last edited by MrQ1701 : 06-22-2009 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star Trek Viewer View Post
As a results of the events in the movie, by the time that Kirk is made captain, do you think that the Federation is more powerful than its known neighbors, or less powerful?

Consider the differences:

1. The Federation has larger ships than in the Prime Universe. More accurately, it has at least one much larger ship, the Alternate Enterprise. (However, according to the fan site ditl.org, the Alternate Universe Constitution is considerably less powerful in its defensive systems (shields) than the Prime Universe's and much less powerful overall. See http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?fedconstitution versus http://www.ditl.org/pagship.php?tmpconstitution )
Let's see -

Ships are only one part of power. They're not make or break in and of themselves.

Quote:
2. [IGNORE THIS PARAGRAPH. -- Edit.] Romulus is gone, meaning that one of the Federation's main enemies is essentially destroyed.
Ok, we have that covered that Romulus exists still (yet). Of course that does feed into the future of Federation/Vulcan/Romulan relations since the Federation knows now just when and where Romulus will come under threat and already knows how to save it.

Leverage? Why do Starships matter when you have the timer counting down to a planet's end?

Can be abused to force the Romulans to do what you want or used to build a relationship.

Quote:
3. Vulcan is gone, but Spock Prime has knowledge of the future, with all the historical and technological advantages that this conveys. Further, it seems that the Earth has been the senior partner in the Federation for some time anyway.
Well, there was another thread on this, and in principle I don't support Spock spilling every little thing he picked up in 129 years. However, I don't really want to be dragged back into that so much.

So let's say he can't keep his mouth shut and sings like a bird. Obviously gives the Federation significant technological advantages sooner than they should have had them.

Could work out or backfire depending on how Klingons/Romulans take to sudden leaps in technology by a rival power.

Quote:
Please take this poll and provide your thoughts. Thanks.
In essence, if information about the future is leaked to the Federation then they have power but not necessarily brute strength power. They have information no-one else has about how some futures may play out.

As Humans are won't to abuse such advance info, I'd suggest it's a generally bad idea to give them such power - but I suspect most people will be happy for the Federation to have it's cake and eat it.
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