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  #41  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH The KING View Post
Should never have appeared.

It made the Defiant look weak by being rescued by the Enterprise, and in the process marginalised DS9

There was no need for Worf to appear in any TNG movie after GEN.
See, now here's my take on the Defiant.

Ok, she was designed by Starfleet's ASDB (Advanced Starship Design Bureau) to be an anti-Borg ship. She had proven herself against just about every enemy except the Borg....and usually came away with flying colors. Then, when the time came for her to actually go up against the very thing she was designed to take on, those designs didn't quite pan out like they did on paper. She still has the reputation of being a "tough little ship" by simply still being there, relatively intact, when the Enterprise came along and rescued her. She was survivable, just not quite packing the punch against the Borg that ASDB had hoped.

All things considered, Defiant still did herself proud that day.
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  #42  
Old 12-14-2010, 05:42 PM
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I just get fustrated after a while..after I realised these people completely rely on my naviety to continue watching and that somehow there might be a rhyme and reason...

Trust me I can't believe I'm saying this because just two years ago I would be allowing my enjoyment of Star Trek to scold someone for being such a grouch about this like some on TrekBBS but the painful truth is that they are right. There is no longer in anything vague enough to speculate on and the maps they put out...don't matter..they don't use them...it's just for us and our imagination...ultimately for us to spend money on.

I feel a little used after wards because I have all these maps in the closet and these tech manuals that make look so thought out and planned and ...they don't use them....It's their stuff and they don't use them.

I just looked at that new tech manual...and they call impulse engines "rockets" when they've been seen doing faster than a rocket has been known to do while causing no time dialation and even going backwards with no explanation of why.

These people...they're just throwing this stuff at us...It's just money in the end. It used to mean so much more to me.
In some ways, I get where you're coming from Saquist. I have both the TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals, and although you do see a lot of stuff from both, both volumes also say (somewhere in their forewards) not to overly rely on them. Even though they're based on the "writers' bibles" for both shows, to use too much of them would be an injustice to the shows.

The only problem I had with the DS9 Tech Manual was that it would seem that the K'vort Class Klingon Battle Cruiser (the giant bird of prey, or as I like to call it "Big Bird" ) is slightly larger than the Negh'Var class attack cruiser.

I never got that impression at all. I always thought the K'vorts somewhere between the size of a K'tinga class battlecruiser (the ST:TMP cruisers) and the Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. Vor'Cha's are roughly the size of an Ambassador class.

Ah well....television rarely gets scaling right anyways.
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  #43  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
In some ways, I get where you're coming from Saquist. I have both the TNG and DS9 Tech Manuals, and although you do see a lot of stuff from both, both volumes also say (somewhere in their forewards) not to overly rely on them. Even though they're based on the "writers' bibles" for both shows, to use too much of them would be an injustice to the shows.

The only problem I had with the DS9 Tech Manual was that it would seem that the K'vort Class Klingon Battle Cruiser (the giant bird of prey, or as I like to call it "Big Bird" ) is slightly larger than the Negh'Var class attack cruiser.

I never got that impression at all. I always thought the K'vorts somewhere between the size of a K'tinga class battlecruiser (the ST:TMP cruisers) and the Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. Vor'Cha's are roughly the size of an Ambassador class.

Ah well....television rarely gets scaling right anyways.
I almost went out and got the last tech manual. It's so pretty and reminds me of old times...It's almost saying this is how it is...I don't believe it anymore. I'm disillusioned. To me Trek is what I see on screen.
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2010, 12:31 AM
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I think TNG followed the stuff from its tech manual more closely than the DS9 show did for its stuff.
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
I just get fustrated after a while..after I realised these people completely rely on my naviety to continue watching and that somehow there might be a rhyme and reason...

Trust me I can't believe I'm saying this because just two years ago I would be allowing my enjoyment of Star Trek to scold someone for being such a grouch about this like some on TrekBBS but the painful truth is that they are right. There is no longer in anything vague enough to speculate on and the maps they put out...don't matter..they don't use them...it's just for us and our imagination...ultimately for us to spend money on.
That is the rub with merchandising...........but in the earlier days there may have been more 'effort' involved.

The problem is that these publications are not (and should never be taken for) strict canon. Maps, technology 'explanations' etc. It's fun, but it's not the kind of thing the writers are (or necessarily should) be bound by.

Quote:
I feel a little used after wards because I have all these maps in the closet and these tech manuals that make look so thought out and planned and ...they don't use them....It's their stuff and they don't use them.

I just looked at that new tech manual...and they call impulse engines "rockets" when they've been seen doing faster than a rocket has been known to do while causing no time dialation and even going backwards with no explanation of why.

These people...they're just throwing this stuff at us...It's just money in the end. It used to mean so much more to me.
Not to start a debate..................God, not to start a debate ..............but impulse engines have been described as technically being rockets for some time.

It's described mostly as a fusion rocket, but that's not new terminology really.

But then Impulse Drive has always been the least tech-i-fied and explained propulsion technology in Star Trek. The focus was mostly on Warp systems by TNG.

That said, I don't buy stuff like tech manuals anymore myself.
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2010, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
The only problem I had with the DS9 Tech Manual was that it would seem that the K'vort Class Klingon Battle Cruiser (the giant bird of prey, or as I like to call it "Big Bird" ) is slightly larger than the Negh'Var class attack cruiser.

I never got that impression at all. I always thought the K'vorts somewhere between the size of a K'tinga class battlecruiser (the ST:TMP cruisers) and the Vor'Cha class attack cruiser. Vor'Cha's are roughly the size of an Ambassador class.

Ah well....television rarely gets scaling right anyways.
Yikes, that Bird-of-Prey was a really, really silly scaling issue.

Simply not a design designed to be that size. It makes no sense and I kinda just block it out as not being 'real'!!
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2010, 09:37 AM
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Sisko wasnt in command of the Defiant at the battle of the Borg invasion because he was ordered to do narrating for some Jesus documentary on the Discovery Channel.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Yikes, that Bird-of-Prey was a really, really silly scaling issue.

Simply not a design designed to be that size. It makes no sense and I kinda just block it out as not being 'real'!!
PICARD: So the Enterprise C is not being attacked by those Big Birds?
DATA: Correct, sir. The Big Birds are just figments of our imagination.

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  #50  
Old 12-15-2010, 02:29 PM
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The BOPs were sometimes quite large but there were dramatic or compositional reasons for its oversize appearance ... just like in the case of ST09, the big E and the scaling issues.

This image would lend some credence to the whole "K'vorts are as big or bigger than Negh'Vars" notion....but I agree with Kevin...I just don't think BoP's oughtta be that size. (Shoulda surrounded the Warbirds with about 16 K't'ingas! That'd learn 'em...those pesky Romulans!)
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