The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > Films > Movies (I - X) > Lore > B-4
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-08-2009, 07:59 PM
Quantum Alert's Avatar
Quantum Alert Quantum Alert is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Default Lore > B-4

So, here we are. Star Trek: Nemesis.

Forgiving the abomination B-4, the one thing that bothered me most was the absolute omission of Lore's existence. Was this ever explained?
__________________
( ( Advisory ) )

External Inertial Damper is Operating at Capacity.

Disengage before the Vulcan makes you look bad.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-08-2009, 08:27 PM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default

It's not something most non-fans would know about. Any mention of Lore would therefore seem superfluous.

The feature films are almost a separate sub-canon from the TV series anyway. Much in the same way that the TOS-verse and TNG-verse are/were in regards to each other, but for different reasons of practicality.

The best 'explanation' is that Lore probably was mentioned at some point (coming across another 'prototype' of Data hardly seems an everyday occurance), but for the purposses of telling this story as a movie we skipped over that moment. I'd be willing to bet the novelization probably mentions Lore.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-08-2009, 08:34 PM
jla1987's Avatar
jla1987 jla1987 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
It's not something most non-fans would know about. Any mention of Lore would therefore seem superfluous.

The feature films are almost a separate sub-canon from the TV series anyway. Much in the same way that the TOS-verse and TNG-verse are/were in regards to each other, but for different reasons of practicality.

The best 'explanation' is that Lore probably was mentioned at some point (coming across another 'prototype' of Data hardly seems an everyday occurance), but for the purposses of telling this story as a movie we skipped over that moment. I'd be willing to bet the novelization probably mentions Lore.
I'd bet that the novelization mentions him as well.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Quantum Alert's Avatar
Quantum Alert Quantum Alert is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Default

Thanks for the feedback... I bet it's a great read...

Has anyone read Star Trek: Nemesis and can support this claim?
__________________
( ( Advisory ) )

External Inertial Damper is Operating at Capacity.

Disengage before the Vulcan makes you look bad.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:27 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default

I have not, as Nemesis really disconnected for me. I stopped reading Star Trek novels around that time anyway, for better or worse. I have hardcovers of the first three TNG films I picked up at The Experience, but I still haven't read them. They're mostly shelf decoration, I guess.

I would assume J.M. Dillard wrote the Nemesis book? She's pretty thorough, if I recall. I'd be surprised if she didn't (bring up Lore, I mean).
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:11 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

The idea favored at both Memory Alpha and Memory Beta is that B4 was Dr. Soong's first attempt at building a positronic android, but the results were less than satisfactory. Lore and Data were built afterward, but Soong apparently chose not to inform either of them of B4 (or presumably, B1 through B3 as well).

Some people have forgotten that the TNG episode "Inheritence" featured a later model Soong-type android that was even more advanced and humanlike than Data, but she was programmed to resemble Soong's deceased wife, Dr. Julia Tainer. This wasn't discovered until a cave accident injury revealed that Julia was an android.

Looking at it from that perspective, Soong actually had a habit of building androids and not telling people about them...
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:18 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

In the film Picard does actually ask - 'Could it be Lore?' if I remember it correctly.

Though since they were supposed to know where he was as he was deactivated at the end of 'Descent, Part II' I doubt they would have left him to go missing again and therefore not know where he was supposed to be.

In terms of it being the final TNG film, I personally, if I had been writing it, would probably have made him Lore rather than B-4.

A better nod to the fans, and since the film doesn't explain how and where Shinzon actually found a previously unknown Soong type android gathering dust, it wouldn't really need any more explanation for it to be Lore.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:40 AM
That Metal Beastie's Avatar
That Metal Beastie That Metal Beastie is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Overhere
Posts: 2,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
In terms of it being the final TNG film, I personally, if I had been writing it, would probably have made him Lore rather than B-4.

A better nod to the fans, and since the film doesn't explain how and where Shinzon actually found a previously unknown Soong type android gathering dust, it wouldn't really need any more explanation for it to be Lore.
Absolutely! It should been Lore, not B4. One of the several things that contributed to Nemesis being a fail.
__________________
'A screaming comes across the sky. It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.'

Thomas Pynchon
'GRAVITY'S RAINBOW'
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:46 AM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Plus, Lore would have been quite happy to help destroy the Federation - he tried it with the Borg after all!
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-09-2009, 03:56 AM
That Metal Beastie's Avatar
That Metal Beastie That Metal Beastie is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Overhere
Posts: 2,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Plus, Lore would have been quite happy to help destroy the Federation - he tried it with the Borg after all!
And that would've given the story more resonance. Missed opportunity.
__________________
'A screaming comes across the sky. It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.'

Thomas Pynchon
'GRAVITY'S RAINBOW'
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:06 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.