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  #11  
Old 06-07-2009, 01:15 PM
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Lucas' biggest fault at the current time (and really it all started in 83 with RotJ) is making Star Wars TOO kid friendly. Once he got to Episode III, things got a bit darker to match A New Hope and Empire. However, there's still too much kiddie stuff in Episode III anyways and it would have been a PG movie if not for the immolation scene.

The kiddie problem also goes for Indy IV, which was the biggest joke in the series next to Temple of Doom.
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  #12  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TGElder View Post
Lucas had a great story that he didn't know how to tell.
When he tried to sell it to the studios he wanted to tell the whole story of Anakin Skywalker from start to finish. His rise, fall and redemption. But the scope was too huge to fit it into one film.(Really, in 1976 how do you sell 12 hours of celluloid to a pop culture whose attention span is only as long as the latest Bee Gee's hit??)
20th Century Fox didn't like the anti-hero approach of Anakin/Darth, so they opted for the traditional hero in Luke. It was sellable, and the public bought it.
Actually, this is what Lucas claims today, but Lucas is a great user of revisionist history. At the time Ep IV (the first film) was released, he claimed he had an idea for three separate trilogies, of which the original trilogy was the middle. Following that was to be what ended up being the prequel trilogy, and following that was supposed to be a trilogy set with Luke as the wise advisor (Mark Hamill was actually contracted to appear in it down the line, and still is, I guess, if it ever gets made before he dies). But nowadays, Lucas says he never said any of that and only ever wanted to make two trilogies.

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It seems to me that Lucas got tired of the story, He'd have been happy to let it end with Episode VI but he had contracted to tell the whole story.
He was not under any contract to produce the prequel trilogy after making the first one. He did so because technology had advanced to where he wanted to make it, because he could CGI the whole thing. If anything, he was way too attached to making the story himself - if you look at his history it seems very difficult for him to delegate anything - he only did it with the second two films because he was tired of it then and under contract.

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But when Anakin's story needed to be told he made the same mistake that TNG did. He packaged it for children, trying to capture the hearts and minds of a new generation.
I think people ignore the fact that the Ewoks existed in Ep. VI for the same reason. Nostalgia has a way of making people blind to faults that were there all along. But I agree, he did digress into inserting too many "childish" things into the films, beginning with VI and ending with II. (Also I have to be curious at what you think is too "childish" about TNG?)

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I think Anakin should have been Vader longer, spent his time hunting down and killing Jedi throughout the galaxy, becoming the feared and hated Darth Vader that we all know and love from Episode IV.
You're betraying the fanboy in you. Ep. III was the story of how Anakin became Vader. So once he had turned, the story was over. While I agree that the turning itself was badly done (kneel down in trepidation, stand up and be evil), extensive scenes of Vader committing atrocities would not further contribute to the story. If he could kill children he knew, he could do anything - plus, this movie and the two that preceded it had to present a character that would become ultimate evil - and still be redeemable after 25 years. So that at the end, you not only have to remember the awful things he's done, but what he gave up to do it - what he could have been if only he'd chosen differently. Most, if not all, fanboys felt cheated that they did not get to see Vader in the suit fighting with his red lightsaber. But it would just have lessened the impact of the well-done scenes showing the Jedi getting slaughtered (I do give Lucas credit for this).
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  #13  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sohna View Post

I think people ignore the fact that the Ewoks existed in Ep. VI for the same reason.
Ewoks, a bad and childish idea? Yes. But you know what? They had the guts to make Ewoks die in battle. That gave them a little more drama then... whatever... there is childish and there is Jar Jar Binks or C-3PO loosing his head. Thats like comparing sodapop with a nuklear bomb.

EDIT: And oh, wasnt it the idea of Lucas to turn the Wookies of Kashyyk into the Ewoks of Endor? You know, just proving my point, that whatever Lucas writes, sucks.

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Originally Posted by Sohna View Post
You're betraying the fanboy in you. Ep. III was the story of how Anakin became Vader. So once he had turned, the story was over. While I agree that the turning itself was badly done (kneel down in trepidation, stand up and be evil), extensive scenes of Vader committing atrocities would not further contribute to the story.
I disagree with you and must agree with TGElder. Skywalker should have become a Sith at the end of the second movie. He should have become a Sith for reasons and a motivation. Palpatine could have promised to abandon slavery once and for all, to bring the Galaxy a New Order of peace and freedom, to unify the Galaxy in ways the Republic never could. And then, from that point on we could have seen how the dark side slowly corrupts Skywalker. Not only in ways of magic (as it was done in this movie, suddenly to use black magic turns you wicked for no reason), but also in terms of character development: How does power corrupt? What power? How many friends and comrades did Anakin see die in battle? How did war scar him?

Then, in the very end he puts on the mask and his journey is complete. But, oh boy, here we are again, that would actually have been character development and would have needed a real author to write and not just a retired producer multi-millionaire, who wastes his days on his Ranch and dreams of being an artist.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 06-07-2009 at 02:52 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Star Trek Viewer View Post

1. Jar Jar Binks
2. Plotlines for the prequels
3. Jar Jar Binks again (because he's just that bad)
4. Pacing of the events in the prequels
5. Midichlorians
6. Anakin as a young boy
7. Anakin as played by Hayden Christensen
8. The Clone Wars
9. Never -- Star Wars is still just as cool as ever
I belive "Greedo shot first" belongs to that list
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  #15  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:50 PM
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I belive "Greedo shot first" belongs to that list
Completely forgott that. Yeah, that really was where the nose dive of Star Wars began.
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  #16  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
EEDIT: And oh, wasnt it the idea of Lucas to turn the Wookies of Kashyyk into the Ewoks of Endor? You know, just proving my point, that whatever Lucas writes, sucks.
Yes. After all the various things Chewbacca did he felt Wookies were not primitive enough. A hightech vs lowtech thing. It might have been subtle reference to the Vietcong.

Oh Greedo yea, and too much new SFX added in the SE. Some was very good, but others were terrible. But for the prequels it was "Roger roger" and downright comical enemies. Darth Maul was the only one that had any kind of evil about him.
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  #17  
Old 06-07-2009, 02:58 PM
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Yes. After all the various things Chewbacca did he felt Wookies were not primitive enough. A hightech vs lowtech thing. It might have been subtle reference to the Vietcong.
You mean a reference to the same vietcong that used tanks and fighter jets? Yeah, sure, seems if Wookies are clever enough to fly the rotten to death Millennium Falcon, then they are all to clever to make an anlogy to asians?

I believe you agree with me: That cant be it.
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:01 PM
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Forgot to add, the absolute best commentary about these changes and additions was South Park and the kids movement to keep directors from altering their movies. Excellent climax and if you havent seen it you need to watch it to understand how Lucas and Spielberg view stormtroopers.
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
You mean a reference to the same vietcong that used tanks and fighter jets? Yeah, sure, seems if Wookies are clever enough to fly the rotten to death Millennium Falcon, then they are all to clever to make an anlogy to asians?

I believe you agree with me: That cant be it.
Of course, also considering the Russians flew alot of those fighters. Sort of like.... the rebels helping the Ewoks. And the Ewoks did manage to get at least one of those 'tanks'. Subtle references are never exact and they do tend to ignore things that work against the point they are trying to make.
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  #20  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:15 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4Potdpjhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPzDj...eature=related

Last edited by Botany Bay : 06-07-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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