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Old 06-05-2009, 01:41 AM
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Default Old Kirk/Spock Vs. New Kirk/Spock




I'm speaking in terms of the professional relationship between the two. The Old Kirk/Spock relationship for me seemed to be based on the Logic/Emotion dynamic. I'll have Capt. Kirk, I mean, William Shatner explain,

"In the second pilot Captain Kirk and Spock immediately developed the chemistry that had been missing in the pilot. Mr. Spock was half-Vulcan, an alien struggling to suppress his human emotion-his choices and decisions were all based on logic. If his commander also was serious and somber, as it had been originally written, Leonard had nothing to play against. As he remembers, 'The writers couldn't get a handle on the difference between Pike and Spock, so Spock came off as this weird kind of colorless character who was little more than a competant first officer.'

But when Kirk was rewritten as a man with very human emotions, as well as a sense of humor, the character of Spock emerged. THe broad range of emotions displayed by Kirk was a perfect contrast to Spock's lack of emotion."

-Up Till Now, the Autobiography by William Shatner

The Old Spock could give his Captain the benefit of cold logic, such as in the second pilot episode, "Where No Man Has Gone Before," where he tells his Captain to "kill Gary Mitchell while you still can." Something which an emotional Captain Kirk found hard to even conceive of doing.

Since the new Spock (Zachary Quinto) is a Vulcan who embraces his emotions, this sets up the question of what dynamic will exist between Kirk and Spock. I think the new film is pretty clear on this, Kirk is the rule-breaker, and Spock is the by-the-book Starfleet officer. That's the new dynamic or tension basis of the Kirk/Spock relationship.

Last edited by chator : 06-05-2009 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:10 AM
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If so, that sucks. Actually I watched TMP the other day and I was blown away at how nuanced Nimoy's performance was. He is ice-cold when he comes on board and the change that comes over him after he merges with the Ilia Probe is overwhelmingly different and yet incredibly subtle. I think it's my favourite Spock performance apart from bewildered Spock in STIV, which was played largely for laughs.

Quinto's Spock does seem a lot more shallow emotionally, although his performance was competent enough. Gung-ho teen Kirk isn't really going to work for me either. It's Bush v Obama - I hope they let the character mature. Kirk is emotional but he isn't petulant or frivolous.
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Old 06-05-2009, 02:43 AM
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Actually, I think our new Spock will tend to be mostly like the older Spock....you have to remember, he lost his Mother in this movie...being half human, of course it affected him...but once he recovers from that shock, I expect he will try to control his emotions just as much as the older Spock, even if for different reasons, the effect will be the same. Spock will still tend to follow the rules and be logical, and Kirk will still tend to bend the rules and be emotional. But I think both of them will have a better understanding of what makes the other tick, a lot sooner into their relationship than the first time around.

It's not so much that he won't show his emotions, he will...but only in private, maybe with Uhura, I suppose. What I'm trying to say is that he will control them, and will not let them interfere with how he interacts with his world.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by FranCat View Post
Actually, I think our new Spock will tend to be mostly like the older Spock....you have to remember, he lost his Mother in this movie...being half human, of course it affected him...but once he recovers from that shock, I expect he will try to control his emotions just as much as the older Spock, even if for different reasons, the effect will be the same. Spock will still tend to follow the rules and be logical, and Kirk will still tend to bend the rules and be emotional. But I think both of them will have a better understanding of what makes the other tick, a lot sooner into their relationship than the first time around.

It's not so much that he won't show his emotions, he will...but only in private, maybe with Uhura, I suppose. What I'm trying to say is that he will control them, and will not let them interfere with how he interacts with his world.
I hope you are right. A Vulcan without logic is like a Zebra without stripes. Unfortunately, that's not where i think Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman want to take the character. Case in point, the relationship with Uhura. It remains to be seen where that will go, or if it will, but the relationship which allows Spock to emote is a compromise with a logical state of mind and being. In addition, I speculate the destruction of Vulcan was deliberately done in order to cut Spock's ties to Vulcan-the planet, the culture, its' people.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:17 AM
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I hope you are right. A Vulcan without logic is like a Zebra without stripes. Unfortunately, that's not where i think Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman want to take the character. Case in point, the relationship with Uhura. It remains to be seen where that will go, or if it will, but the relationship which allows Spock to emote is a compromise with a logical state of mind and being. In addition, I speculate the destruction of Vulcan was deliberately done in order to cut Spock's ties to Vulcan-the planet, the culture, its' people.
If he had been the only survivor, maybe...but there are 10,000 other Vulcans, still...including his own father. somehow, I think that if he and Uhura stay as an item, she will be the only one who sees any sign of emotion from him...much like I imagine Sarek and Amanda were...you cannot tell me that Sarek never showed any emotion when he and Amanda were alone. Sarek even admitted that he loved her!
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:23 AM
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If he had been the only survivor, maybe...but there are 10,000 other Vulcans, still...including his own father. somehow, I think that if he and Uhura stay as an item, she will be the only one who sees any sign of emotion from him...much like I imagine Sarek and Amanda were...you cannot tell me that Sarek never showed any emotion when he and Amanda were alone. Sarek even admitted that he loved her!
With the destruction of Vulcan, his relationship to Uhura, if it develops into a romantic one, becomes more logical. Come to think of it, Spock's mother's death also seems to make it necessary for him to find a replacement for what she represented in his life, so i'd guess the Spock/Uhura thing will continue to develop into the next film.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:26 AM
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sounds logical to me... (sorry, couldn't help myself!)
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:30 AM
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I think you need to give it more time, the new spock/kirk have only had one film together and this was establishing their relationship, you must remember even in the original series they already had a history. I think the relationship will blossum beautifully over the next sequels.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:31 AM
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I think you need to give it more time, the new spock/kirk have only had one film together and this was establishing their relationship, you must remember even in the original series they already had a history. I think the relationship will blossum beautifully over the next sequels.
Hear, Hear!! I agree.
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:01 AM
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well I think they will get on much better in the sequel I wonder what the next one will be about and the original Kirk and Spock rock no offence to the new ones I love them as well
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