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Old 06-02-2009, 06:50 AM
Avalon_ Avalon_ is offline
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Default Basic plot flaws *Spoilers*

Hello all,
It's my first post of these forums, so please be kind!
I saw the new film (or "movie" if you prefer) last week, and enjoyed it so much that I went back this weekend. Congratulations to the teams who made it - I thought it was terrific, and can't wait for more. I don't mind it changing some details from previous films - personally, I prefer them to make minor changes for a more interesting film.

Just a couple of plot questions that I had the first time I saw it, and couldn't work out during my second viewing:

1. When Vulcan is being attacked, Kirk and Sulu stop the drilling device in the atmosphere; Pike is on Nero's ship; and Spock has the bridge. All is fine. Then the red matter is fired into the planet, and Chekov tells Spock that the planet is about to be destroyed. Spock leaves the bridge (presumably to hurry to the surface and save the council as he explains) and Chekov is in charge. Fine. Then, after Chekov has been put in charge, Kirk and Sulu fall off the platform. A decent amount of time (30secs?) ensues, before Chekov realises that he can run to the transporter room and save them. He runs there, spends a few seconds saving them, and then guess who walks in... SPOCK! What?! How did Chekov overtake Spock, even though he left the bridge earlier, and was (presumably) in a rush also!? Did he stop for a Starbucks coffee?

2. So, Vulcan is destroyed, and Spock then orders the Enterprise to regroup with the fleet rather than go to Earth. Whether or not the place they are going is in the direction of Earth is irrelevant for my question, but I inferred it to be in a different direction (which makes my question ever more bizzare). He then jetisons Kirk onto a planet. Kirk then walks 14km in the snow (a couple of hours?), picking up Spock Prime on the way, before having a chat with Scotty and transporting onto the Enterprise. More time is spent taking charge of the ship. Total time since the destruction of Vulcan: perhaps 3 hours? What has Nero's ship been doing all this time? Presumably it's on the way to Earth. Remember the Enterprise's first trip from Earth to Vulvan - that took about 10 minutes... so how long would it take Nero in a ship over 100 years more advanced? Surely, by the time the Enterprise got to Earth, it would be destroyed??? Before you say that Nero had to repair the drill.... it's a mining ship - surely they have spares! What did the Romulan's do - stop at a Cafe Nero en-route?

3. Out of interest, what did the Romulans do for the 25 years between their appearance in the "past" and Spock Prime reappearing?

4. Spock Prime required 1 drop of red matter to stop the supernova. So why, praytell, did he fill his ship with gallons of the stuff?!?!? He even explains that they refitted the ship for the purpose. Why? If they'd just given him a few canisters of the stuff, he'd have saved times and Romulus would be saved!

Sorry for the length. Just wondering what I missed!

A
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:00 PM
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NCC-73515 NCC-73515 is offline
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3. Klingon prison planet.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:07 PM
decompiler decompiler is offline
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Well, uh, my guess about the Red Matter is that it was all created at once and could not be seperated in large portions. It's most likely not refined. My guess is that you either create batches as large as we saw in the movie or nothing at all.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:10 PM
Thascales Thascales is offline
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1: Spock went down to the transporter room after the black hole had been born. The drill was presumably yanked up while he was en route, so Kirk and Sulu were falling when he arrived at the transporter room. Since he couldn't beam down while the transporter technicians were trying desperately to beam the two skydivers up, he had to sit on his hands until the pad was clear. No wonder he was so short with them after they were safely beamed up by Chekov.

Edit: also, 2: I'm not so sure that the Narada had spare drills. Before its 'upgrades', the ship was only a small mining ship. I don't think the upgrades did anything except transform the vessel from a dinky roidrat into a behemoth warship, so if they wanted to drill into planetary crusts, they needed their one drill from their roidrat days. Hence why Nero was so angry once the drill was destroyed at the end of the film; if they had spare drills, his response would have been more along the lines of 'deploy drill two' rather than 'SPOOOOCK! SPOOOOOOOCK!'

Last edited by Thascales : 06-02-2009 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:13 PM
decompiler decompiler is offline
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Here's one of my big plot flubs:

When the Kelvin collided with the Narada, why didn't the antimatter in the Kelvin's core utterly obliterate Nero's ship? I mean - COME ON! we all know very well what antimatter explosions can do in the Star Trek universe! If Archer's Father's ship had antimatter - if the Enterprise NX-01 had antimatter, then the Kelvin did too.

Less potent antimatter?

Hogwash...

The Narada is 5 miles long. An antimatter explosion could easily destroy a ship of that size.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:20 PM
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sheilds?
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:21 PM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
1. When Vulcan is being attacked, Kirk and Sulu stop the drilling device in the atmosphere; Pike is on Nero's ship; and Spock has the bridge. All is fine. Then the red matter is fired into the planet, and Chekov tells Spock that the planet is about to be destroyed. Spock leaves the bridge (presumably to hurry to the surface and save the council as he explains) and Chekov is in charge. Fine. Then, after Chekov has been put in charge, Kirk and Sulu fall off the platform. A decent amount of time (30secs?) ensues, before Chekov realises that he can run to the transporter room and save them. He runs there, spends a few seconds saving them, and then guess who walks in... SPOCK! What?! How did Chekov overtake Spock, even though he left the bridge earlier, and was (presumably) in a rush also!? Did he stop for a Starbucks coffee?
I think that was the scene where Uhura follows Spock into the turbolift for a little huggy-huggy, kissy-kissy. I think that's what held him up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
2. So, Vulcan is destroyed, and Spock then orders the Enterprise to regroup with the fleet rather than go to Earth. Whether or not the place they are going is in the direction of Earth is irrelevant for my question, but I inferred it to be in a different direction (which makes my question ever more bizzare). He then jetisons Kirk onto a planet. Kirk then walks 14km in the snow (a couple of hours?), picking up Spock Prime on the way, before having a chat with Scotty and transporting onto the Enterprise. More time is spent taking charge of the ship. Total time since the destruction of Vulcan: perhaps 3 hours? What has Nero's ship been doing all this time? Presumably it's on the way to Earth. Remember the Enterprise's first trip from Earth to Vulvan - that took about 10 minutes... so how long would it take Nero in a ship over 100 years more advanced? Surely, by the time the Enterprise got to Earth, it would be destroyed??? Before you say that Nero had to repair the drill.... it's a mining ship - surely they have spares! What did the Romulan's do - stop at a Cafe Nero en-route?
It's just a movie. You're not supposed to ask those kinds of questions. At least that's what my wife keeps telling me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
3. Out of interest, what did the Romulans do for the 25 years between their appearance in the "past" and Spock Prime reappearing?
Supposedly, they were held prisoner on Rura Penthe. Maybe we'll see more of that in the deleted scenes in the DVD release.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
4. Spock Prime required 1 drop of red matter to stop the supernova. So why, praytell, did he fill his ship with gallons of the stuff?!?!? He even explains that they refitted the ship for the purpose. Why? If they'd just given him a few canisters of the stuff, he'd have saved times and Romulus would be saved!
Again, plot device. Don't ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
Sorry for the length. Just wondering what I missed!
No prob. And welcome to the forum!!
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:21 PM
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Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalon_ View Post
Spock leaves the bridge (presumably to hurry to the surface and save the council as he explains) and Chekov is in charge. Fine. Then, after Chekov has been put in charge, Kirk and Sulu fall off the platform. A decent amount of time (30secs?) ensues, before Chekov realises that he can run to the transporter room and save them. He runs there, spends a few seconds saving them, and then guess who walks in... SPOCK! What?! How did Chekov overtake Spock, even though he left the bridge earlier, and was (presumably) in a rush also!? Did he stop for a Starbucks coffee?
Yeah, that puzzled me too. The funny thing is, it puzzled me a few hours after I had seen the movie and was thinking about this and that, you know, remembering the flick. While watching the movie I didnt even realize it as a mistake of the script.

Having seen the movie a second time I cant help the feeling that the movie was really heavilly recut and not allways for the better.

However, what about this:
Pike has Kirk, Sulu and Olson skydiving onto the drilling rig because its beam jams the transporters? Why dont they just shoot the damn thing from space?

Kirk and Spock beam onto the Narada, Spock takes the Jellyfish and takes out the drill. Couldnt the Enterprise have done this?

Spock takes the jellyfish to warp, causing Nero to follow him. What was the plan in case he did not follow him and instead just had used an auxilliary drilling rig going on destroying earth? Didnt he want Spock to watch? Would they then have induced the red matter and created a black hole in earth orbit? How did Spock and Kirk know Nero would follow Spock? Without that knowledge, what the heck was their whole plan to begin with? Beaming over to the Narada to do what? Geting the red matter and then?

Kirk rushes to the bridge to warn Pike they are flying into a trap. Pike says thanks for warning us and... flies into a trap?! What was that actually all about?

After Spock had marooned Kirk on Delta Vega he talks to McCoy and asks him for his opinion about... yeah... about what? The meaning of life and everything? That makes McCoy rant about how you should not leave your prize stallion in the stables. What? A ship with fourhundred crewmen and a redneck Cadett from Iowa in his fourth year at the Academy is now the ships master asset? Spock asks wether the doctor wants him to walk around weeping. About what? Having marooned a man on a planet, a man Spock had nothing to do with, a stranger? What in heavens name are these men actually talking about? The whole dialogue doesnt make any sense.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 06-02-2009 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:29 PM
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thestartrekker thestartrekker is offline
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Klingon prison planet? I know these scenes were cut from the movie, but it still doesn't expaine a few things.
How did he get captured?
Why wait conveniently for 25 years to escape?
How did he escape?
Who had the Narada all that time?
Surely the Klingons would have used it if the had captured it and imprisoned Nero? Think of the untold damage they could have done with it.
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Old 06-02-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
However, what about this:
Pike has Kirk, Sulu and Olson skydiving onto the drilling rig because its beam jams the transporters? Why dont they just shoot the damn thing from space?

Kirk and Spock beam onto the Narada, Spock takes the Jellyfish and takes out the drill. Couldnt the Enterprise have done this?
Fair enough - these are common sense questions that are vaild. But Star Trek is absolutely filled to the brim with them - across all the films and series.

If the characters in Trek had half the common sense we all seem to there would be no episodes to watch.

Quote:
Spock takes the jellyfish to warp, causing Nero to follow him. What was the plan in case he did not follow him and instead just had used an auxilliary drilling rig going on destroying earth? Didnt he want Spock to watch? Would they then have induced the red matter and created a black hole in earth orbit? How did Spock and Kirk know Nero would follow Spock? Without that knowledge, what the heck was their whole plan to begin with? Beaming over to the Narada to do what? Geting the red matter and then?
The Red Matter is only on the Jellyfish. Nero has to follow him to get it back and complete his plan.

Quote:
Kirk rushes to the bridge to warn Pike they are flying into a trap. Pike says thanks for warning us and... flies into a trap?! What was that actually all about?
Hadn't they already gotten too close?

Quote:
After Spock had marooned Kirk on Delta Vega he talks to McCoy and asks him for his opinion about... yeah... about what? The meaning of life and everything? That makes McCoy rant about how you should not leave your prize stallion in the stables. What? A ship with fourhundred crewmen and a redneck Cadett from Iowa in his fourth year at the Academy is now the ships master asset? Spock asks wether the doctor wants him to walk around weeping. About what? Having marooned a man on a planet, a man Spock had nothing to do with, a stranger? What in heavens name are these men actually talking about? The whole dialogue doesnt make any sense.
McCot was lambasting Spock for a poor command decision is what I took from it.

And because the Redneck was actually right?
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