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  #31  
Old 06-02-2009, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by thanis View Post
There is a missing scene. Sulu stated a sword was the weapon of a warrior. Not as clumsy or random as a phaser; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.
Bad bad bad.
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  #32  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
Well, if you would have paid a little more attention, then you would have noticed that Sulu was not freeing himself from the chute. He was cutting it away because it was damaged and useless. Then he had the time to take off his helmet, then the Romulan aproached him. Sulu still had the time to take off his hood and show a dramatical pose, then the Romulan decided to leisurely draw his axe. There was quite a lot of time to draw a phaser. But then, why to make it easy, if you can make it complicated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CccprKl_YcM
Sure...but if you have one weapon in your hand and another tucked away somewhere safe so it won't get lost in that dramatic freefall from outer space wouldn't you use the weapon you had in hand? Also, when the Romulan (who, we assume, was armed with an easily available phaser, much like the one Kirk grabbed later in the movie) sees Sulu with his sword, he doesn't draw his phaser, he draws his sword. So, the scene is, you are holding a sword facing an opponent with a sword. Your phaser is either gone or secured for the freefall. What do you do? I say, swing the sword.
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  #33  
Old 06-02-2009, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
Well, if you would have paid a little more attention, then you would have noticed that Sulu was not freeing himself from the chute. He was cutting it away because it was damaged and useless.
Yes, he was cutting it away, because the chute was pulling him over that plasma jet, hence the word freeing. It's amazing how a word is chosen to convey the proper meaning, eh?
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  #34  
Old 06-02-2009, 10:26 PM
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TjJones...I just wanted to note that I really appreciate your attention to detail and how you relate it...
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  #35  
Old 06-02-2009, 11:25 PM
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Sulu didn't have a phaser. Abrams's Sulu is a ninja, and ninjas don't use phasers.

the scene was contrived so Sulu could show off his mastery of fencing. ninja fencing. otherwise known as ninjutsu. it counts as fencing now.
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  #36  
Old 06-02-2009, 11:34 PM
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Some thoughts from a person who actually knows how to use a sword...

Sulu had to draw his sword to sever himself from his parachute. It was in his dominant hand when he was confronted by that Romulan. In the time it'd take him to draw his phaser with his off-hand, release the safety, aim, and fire, the Romulan could've closed the distance and landed a quick thrust directly in his face. Instant lose. Sulu had an effective close-quarters weapon in his dominant hand, and an enemy who was brandishing something similar. Closing into a bladed-weapon fight was a fairly logical response.

Also, the fact that the katana was a high-tech collapsible weapon - with a fully sharpened edge - makes me think it was a piece of Starfleet equipment, not just something Sulu happened to have lying around. In a close fight, blades can be extremely potent weapons, and have manoeuvering and defense advantages that you just don't get with a firearm. It'd make sense for Starfleet to have them in their arsenal, just as it'd make sense for Sulu to grab both a phaser and a sword while gearing up for the strike on the drill.

Now, I could have things to say about Sulu's fighting style - except that I'm aware he's a fencer, and fencing is quite different from traditional combat-oriented sword systems. (Though strictly speaking, the term 'fencing' refers to all forms of sword combat, both sporting and battlefield, whether Asian or European or from elsewhere.) Today's fencing is nothing like the combat arts of several centuries ago; in another few centuries it's bound to have evolved further. Besides, I've never learned any katana styles, instead focussing on documented western martial arts. Still, it was odd to see so many spinning blows and such... not odd by Hollywood standards, but odd in terms of real-life combat. Also interesting that he used the sword entirely one-handed, whereas real-world katanas are primarily a hand-and-a-half weapon, alternating between one or both hands as needed. But then, Sulu's weapon used materials and technologies that don't yet exist, so it's totally feasible that it'd weigh almost nothing.

:edit: though I freely admit that the scene was 'rigged' to ensure he'd get to use his sword. Right from when he mentioned his fencing background on the shuttle. A fine example of "Chekhov's gun", if you'll pardon the irony.
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  #37  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
Some thoughts from a person who actually knows how to use a sword...

Sulu had to draw his sword to sever himself from his parachute. It was in his dominant hand when he was confronted by that Romulan. In the time it'd take him to draw his phaser with his off-hand, release the safety, aim, and fire, the Romulan could've closed the distance and landed a quick thrust directly in his face. Instant lose. Sulu had an effective close-quarters weapon in his dominant hand, and an enemy who was brandishing something similar. Closing into a bladed-weapon fight was a fairly logical response.

Also, the fact that the katana was a high-tech collapsible weapon - with a fully sharpened edge - makes me think it was a piece of Starfleet equipment, not just something Sulu happened to have lying around. In a close fight, blades can be extremely potent weapons, and have manoeuvering and defense advantages that you just don't get with a firearm. It'd make sense for Starfleet to have them in their arsenal, just as it'd make sense for Sulu to grab both a phaser and a sword while gearing up for the strike on the drill.

Now, I could have things to say about Sulu's fighting style - except that I'm aware he's a fencer, and fencing is quite different from traditional combat-oriented sword systems. (Though strictly speaking, the term 'fencing' refers to all forms of sword combat, both sporting and battlefield, whether Asian or European or from elsewhere.) Today's fencing is nothing like the combat arts of several centuries ago; in another few centuries it's bound to have evolved further. Besides, I've never learned any katana styles, instead focussing on documented western martial arts. Still, it was odd to see so many spinning blows and such... not odd by Hollywood standards, but odd in terms of real-life combat. Also interesting that he used the sword entirely one-handed, whereas real-world katanas are primarily a hand-and-a-half weapon, alternating between one or both hands as needed. But then, Sulu's weapon used materials and technologies that don't yet exist, so it's totally feasible that it'd weigh almost nothing.

:edit: though I freely admit that the scene was 'rigged' to ensure he'd get to use his sword. Right from when he mentioned his fencing background on the shuttle. A fine example of "Chekhov's gun", if you'll pardon the irony.
J.J. Abrams wanted a ninja. thus, Sulu became a ninja.

next movie will have them all crash land, marooning 'em all on an unknown island on a lost planet where a whole lot of weird shyte happens that defies all logic.

and, of course, it'll all be related to a lost colony of Federation scientists.
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  #38  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theGeekKing View Post
J.J. Abrams wanted a ninja. thus, Sulu became a ninja.
Acrobatics and martial arts aren't the same as "ninja". Historical reality versus adolescent fantasy.

"Fencing" is swordplay in all its forms.
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  #39  
Old 06-03-2009, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Big D View Post
Acrobatics and martial arts aren't the same as "ninja". Historical reality versus adolescent fantasy.

"Fencing" is swordplay in all its forms.
you honestly think they weren't shooting for ninja? the scene was like bad anime.

and "fencing" references several forms of european (primarily spanish or french) swordplay, as well as occasionally being used as a term for kendo and a few other eastern styles. this was the first time I've ever seen a ninjafight referenced as "fencing."

and when discussing ninjas in movies, of course we mean the adolescent fantasy. historical reality usually makes for poor action movie swordfights.
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  #40  
Old 06-03-2009, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
TjJones...I just wanted to note that I really appreciate your attention to detail and how you relate it...
Coming from you, Liz, that's a big compliment. Thanks.
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