The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > Romulans, Promotions and the road to 2258 (speculation)
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:43 PM
LordJuss LordJuss is offline
Midshipman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Default Romulans, Promotions and the road to 2258 (speculation)

OK, first off... I saw the movie and LOVED it; Great script; brilliant action; fab acting. Also, I'm not a canon obsessive. I have no interest in nit-picks, discussions on whether there was too little/much action, whether they should have kept to the original canon etc. Don't get me wrong, that's fine for others but not my cup of tea.

However, I am a canon buff. To me, writers should write good stories and if they contradict canon so be it. It's the job of fans to work out how it all fits together. Maybe being brought up on Doctor Who created that mindset!!

So, with that in mind, I thought I'd have a go at providing a coherent explanation of some of the canon changes in the film.
The main points to address are
* the rapid promotion of Pike and Kirk (Pike is noted on the official site as having risen to Captain in 4 years - considerably faster than Kirk Prime)
* the fact that the Romulans are already known to be a Vulcan offshoot
* the new Enterprise's design and launch date
* the fact that the entire federation fleet is engaged elsewhere, leaving Earth and Vulcan undefended.
* the fact that the attack on the Kelvin was known to be by Romulans (Spock or Kirk says it was - can't remember which)

So here's my take on how Nero's arrival in 2233 played out. Hope you enjoy it (and take it in the spirit it's meant).

After the destruction of the Kelvin, Starfleet investigates. Although no survivors saw who was manning the ship, the weapons signatures and hull alloys (ripped off by the Kelvin's impact) match those known from the Romulan war. Believing that the Romulans have broken the treaty, the Federation demand an explanation. The Romulans, who genuinely know nothing about it, think the Federation have invented the whole thing as an excuse to re-start hostilities. Tensions rapidly escalate and a second Romulan War begins. It is during this war that screen contact is established with the Romulans and their link to Vulcan discovered. The war is brief but bloody, resulting in the loss of many officers and a good fraction of the fleet. As a consequence talented new officers are promoted rapidly, including Pike. Eventually a new peace deal is reached and the Neutral zone is re-established [it's mentioned in the film]. The conflict also delays Starfleet's construction programme as its resources are employed elswhere.

Starfleet is now a shadow of its former glory. Sensing an opportunity, other aggressive races begin to nip at the Federation's heels. This includes the Klingons, and possibly the Cardassians [we know contact has been established from Uhura's drinks order] along with others. These low-level conflicts force Starfleet down a more militaristic design path, resulting in larger, more aggressively armed ships - including the Enterprise. They also keep the turn-over of officers high (resulting in Spock's rapid rise to Commander) and prevent Starfleet from re-building a large standing fleet.

In 2258, one of these conflicts takes a serious turn in the Laurentian system, threatening the core worlds. Despite the risks, Starfleet mobilises all ships, leaving Earth defended by a skeleton fleet and Vulcan not defended at all. Although the fleet is successful in the Laurentian system, Nero's attack wipes out a full cohort of the academy (grads and undergrads) leaving a huge gap in Starfleet's recruitment and promotion plans. With the loss of Pike as a field commander, the promotion of Kirk to Captain is only logical.

Well, that's what I like to think. It all flows logically from the Kelvin attack, which I find pleasing. And if the writers of the next one are reading these forums they're welcome to steal it! )

LJ.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:52 PM
NCC-73515's Avatar
NCC-73515 NCC-73515 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 7,225
Default

Nice explanation. Welcome aboard.
__________________


"English! I thought I dreamed hearing it!"?
Khan, Space Seed (TOS)

Brought to you in living color by NCC.
-= first fan member =-

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:56 PM
Drakonnen's Avatar
Drakonnen Drakonnen is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 33
Default

Here are my thoughts on Kirk's promotion and being left in command of the Enterprise:

After 3 years at the academy, I think he was just about to achieve the rank of Lieutenant anyway, similar to Uhura, but for that academic glitch (remember he said "4? I'll do it in 3").

Thus at the time he was really only 4 years away from getting his own ship, based on Pike's initial assessment (which again could be shortened to just 3 if Kirk continued to excel).

Then, once on the Enterprise, Kirk was promoted to First Officer because, A. he just gave the Enterprise at least a fighting chance and spotted the ambush, B. unlike everyone else on that ship after Pike was departing, Kirk actually was well versed in the situation and what was happening, having studied it previously, and C. I don't think Pike expected Kirk to survive the space dive mission, or the Enterprise to get survive either for that matter (based on what happened to the Kelvin).

Getting from XO to Captain was believable, based on Spock's breakdown.

And the reason he was left in command of the Enterprise seemed obvious: HE JUST SAVED EARTH AND EVERY PLANET IN THE FEDERATION, despite the fact that the enemy he was taking on just destroyed 40+ Klingon ships, the planet Vulcan, and 7 Federation ships.

You think they are going to take the hero of Star Fleet and the entire Federation, who just proved the fact that he knew what he was doing and could accomplish the most difficult of missions which no one else could accomplish, and stick him back as support staff on the Enterprise or in command of some lesser ship? That they would in anyway break up this elite crew that had accomplished so much together?

Even the Romulans and the Klingons are going to be a little scared to have the guy who took out this threat out and about and in command of the Federation's strongest vessel.

I can understand not buying into him being promoted to first officer, though I think its plausible, but for people to say they wouldn't leave him as Captain of the Enterprise after all that makes little sense to me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:57 PM
That Metal Beastie's Avatar
That Metal Beastie That Metal Beastie is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Overhere
Posts: 2,527
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Nice explanation. Welcome aboard.
Indeed. Works for me.
__________________
'A screaming comes across the sky. It has happened before, but there is nothing to compare it to now.'

Thomas Pynchon
'GRAVITY'S RAINBOW'
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-28-2009, 02:18 PM
Samuel Samuel is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,883
Default

If anyone wants this quick promotion to be 'believable' what else needs to be done? Its one thing to say its highly unlikely. Its another to insist that it simply cannot happen under any circumstances.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-28-2009, 02:23 PM
NCC-73515's Avatar
NCC-73515 NCC-73515 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 7,225
Default

Hey, you only need to write lots of posts...
__________________


"English! I thought I dreamed hearing it!"?
Khan, Space Seed (TOS)

Brought to you in living color by NCC.
-= first fan member =-

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-28-2009, 02:26 PM
vanvideo vanvideo is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 89
Default

Rapid rises in ranks are not unheard of, at least in the US military.

Take the example of Robert Shaw, who commanded the 54th Massachusetts Infantry in the Civil War. He started out as a 2nd Lieutenant in May, 1861 (with the 2nd Mass. infantry). He then went on to command the 54th Mass., rising to Major in March 1863, then to Colonel (equal to a Captain rank in the navy) in April, 1863. He was all of 25 years old. I'd say that's a pretty rapid rise in rank.
Shaw's rise in rank may have had to do with the tremendous casualties inflicted on both sides of the war - over 600,000 killed. That might tie in to Starfleet losing so many ships at Vulcan, and who knows how many at the Laurentian system.

Also, Shaw commanded an unpopular brigade, as the 54th was the first all-black army unit. Many officers didn't want the command, so Shaw was possibly promoted to full Colonel because nobody else wanted the job. Plus, his parents were very well connected in Massachusetts politics. During the Civil War, the individual states formed their own army units.

George Custer went from 1st lieutenant to brigadier General at once at the age of 23, during the battle of Gettysburg. However, he was demoted to Captain (army rank) at the end of the Civil War.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-28-2009, 02:52 PM
TJJones's Avatar
TJJones TJJones is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 341
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanvideo View Post
George Custer went from 1st lieutenant to brigadier General at once at the age of 23, during the battle of Gettysburg. However, he was demoted to Captain (army rank) at the end of the Civil War.

We had this discussion about Custer somewhere else on the boards; his promotion was to brigadier general of volunteers, which only lasted for the duration of the war. It was effectively a brevet promotion, and never intended to be permanent.

So, Custer wasn't demoted to captain; he simply reverted to his permanent rank after the end of the war, which was captain. (So, he was effectively promoted one grade during the war.)
__________________
Davy Jones
Your Friendly, Neighborhood, Navy Vet!

The United States Navy: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of all Who Threaten It!

"I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction: 'I served in the United States Navy.'" -President John F. Kennedy


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-28-2009, 07:57 PM
vanvideo vanvideo is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJones View Post
We had this discussion about Custer somewhere else on the boards; his promotion was to brigadier general of volunteers, which only lasted for the duration of the war. It was effectively a brevet promotion, and never intended to be permanent.

So, Custer wasn't demoted to captain; he simply reverted to his permanent rank after the end of the war, which was captain. (So, he was effectively promoted one grade during the war.)
Yeah, true, and he eventually became a major general of volunteers. The point being, in extraordinary circumstances, some rose through the ranks quickly, even if it was temporary.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:26 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.