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  #41  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chator View Post
I think DS9 tried to deal with some church/state issues, but I have to agree with Samuel that I never thought of the Borg as a metaphor for the Vatican, although i know Roddenberry liked to do God-type stories, and I think you are right about Q being a God-like Being, of the OT variety. In "Encounter at Farpoint," Picard (Christ) and crew (Theives) are put on trial (the cross) for the crimes (sins) of humanity, by Q (Father-God).

I always considered the Borg a metaphor for a cult, or a Communist society, even though Roddenberry was a utopian Socialist.
I always thought that Picard and crew were representative of all of humanity and Q was putting them on trial for the sins of humanity(as he saw them, remember Q is prone to petty emotions). Vengeance is the petty emotion that Q displays the most of in this episode. It's a false kind of vengeance though because even he knows that he did not create humanity and we haven't wronged him in any way.

And Q knows he has no right to judge us, but he's going to go ahead and do so anyway because he is powerful enough to do whatever he wants.

It's basically an age old question: DOES MIGHT MAKE RIGHT?

If there is an all powerful god out there, does that give him the absolute right to treat us like crap if he wants to?

That's what I think Encounter at Farpoint was trying to convey I think.

Last edited by RedShirtsRuS : 05-22-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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  #42  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:47 PM
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Then make me understand, explain it to me. I don't understand what I am doing or exactly what you are trying to say... It's not like we Americans are free of shame for past deeds. We practically destroyed ourselves in our civil war, and I shudder to think of the shame full acts perpetrated on native Americans through our history. I am not beyond understanding, though I cant claim to fully understand your dispute... but you could at least help me to try.
The german dispute doesnt matter here. I merely mentioned it as an example. Again, I dont know what the deal actually is or how it started. All I said was, that current issues are bigottry, fear and ignorance and that the movie should deal with it from an american perspective. Then DammitJim came with some sarcastic comments and then I had to explain what I meant with american perspective and so I did. The End.
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  #43  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post

If there is an all powerful god out there, does that give him the absolute right to treat us like crap if he wants to?

That's what I think Encounter at Farpoint was trying to convey I think.
still here. I really spend to much time on this site.

dude, God doesn't treat anybody like crap. people do that to themselves and to each other.

Farpoint wasn't trying to convey anything. it was rubbish. even Riker said so at the end.
Q never claimed to be god-like, except that episode Tapestry, but admits straight away he is just ripping the p*ss.
I also think Q was one of the worst characters ever in anything. a rather irrating little twerp. deLancie I mean, not Q (cos that was the point of him I guess)
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  #44  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
The german dispute doesnt matter here. I merely mentioned it as an example. Again, I dont know what the deal actually is or how it started. All I said was, that current issues are bigottry, fear and ignorance and that the movie should deal with it from an american perspective. Then DammitJim came with some sarcastic comments and then I had to explain what I meant with american perspective and so I did. The End.
I wasn't being sarcastic.
why can you not understand Indestructible's post.
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  #45  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:57 PM
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btw, defo got to go now.

I need to cut back on the time I spend online. so I'll be back later next week.
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  #46  
Old 05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by DammitJim View Post
still here. I really spend to much time on this site.
It's a good site to spend time on.

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Originally Posted by DammitJim
dude, God doesn't treat anybody like crap. people do that to themselves and to each other.
I also agree God doesn't treat anybody like crap. Because I think there isn't a God in the first place. I fully agree with you that people do that to themselves. That's the point.

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Originally Posted by DammitJim
Farpoint wasn't trying to convey anything. it was rubbish. even Riker said so at the end.
It was, the overtones were blatant.

And if you concluded it was rubbish, then a God putting people on trial for things that aren't their fault is rubbish too isn't it? I also agree with Riker's statement. From a different perspective of course. It adds to my original point of how silly our perceptions of God. Can get.

Q is a caricature of mankind's attempt to define God. That's his purpose in TNG. And I think it's a perspective that more people need to see before they claim to know what the all powerful creator of the universe(if there even is one) wants or thinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DammitJim
Q never claimed to be god-like, except that episode Tapestry, but admits straight away he is just ripping the p*ss.
I also think Q was one of the worst characters ever in anything. a rather irrating little twerp. deLancie I mean, not Q (cos that was the point of him I guess)
I thought deLancie was brilliant in his portrayal of the character he was supposed to play. The contradictory, annoying, petty, childish all powerful god of the old testament.

I'm not saying that's the god you believe in so please don't take it personally.
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  #47  
Old 05-22-2009, 04:33 PM
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Indestructible Object Indestructible Object is offline
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Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
The german dispute doesnt matter here. I merely mentioned it as an example. Again, I dont know what the deal actually is or how it started. All I said was, that current issues are bigottry, fear and ignorance and that the movie should deal with it from an american perspective. Then DammitJim came with some sarcastic comments and then I had to explain what I meant with american perspective and so I did. The End.
Fair enough, all I was trying to get at was that we need to stop looking at things from an American or German perspective and start looking at things form a human perspective.
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  #48  
Old 05-22-2009, 05:04 PM
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waiting for an important e-mail and look where I end up.

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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
It's a good site to spend time on.
I mean way too much time.

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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
I also agree God doesn't treat anybody like crap. Because I think there isn't a God in the first place. I fully agree with you that people do that to themselves. That's the point.
at least we agree on half of it.

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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
And if you concluded it was rubbish, then a God putting people on trial for things that aren't their fault is rubbish too isn't it? I also agree with Riker's statement. From a different perspective of course. It adds to my original point of how silly our perceptions of God. Can get.
when saying FARPOINT was rubbish, I meant the entire episode. it's worst TREK ever. As for a "God putting people on trial for things that are not their fault" - 1) Q (did not claim then that he was) was putting humanity on trial for things the HAD done in the past 2) if you are saying that God (Christian, Muslim, Misc. = Simpsons gag there don't choke when did that happen that God blamed Man in the wrong??

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
Q is a caricature of mankind's attempt to define God. That's his purpose in TNG. And I think it's a perspective that more people need to see before they claim to know what the all powerful creator of the universe(if there even is one) wants or thinks.
eh??

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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
I thought deLancie was brilliant in his portrayal of the character he was supposed to play. The contradictory, annoying, petty, childish all powerful god of the old testament.

I'm not saying that's the god you believe in so please don't take it personally.
I don't take it personally. (this place isn't real)
but please explain your adjectives in regards to the "god of the old testament"
"I'm not saying that's the god you believe in so please don't take it personally." - my answer is 3 fold 1) you are 2) I never said I did 3) there is only One
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  #49  
Old 05-22-2009, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Indestructible Object View Post
Fair enough, all I was trying to get at was that we need to stop looking at things from an American or German perspective and start looking at things form a human perspective.
dude, it was clear to anyone who read it
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  #50  
Old 05-22-2009, 05:06 PM
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that's it I seriously mean it.

I'm not coming back here until Wednesday at the earliest

take care
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