[DammitJim]

Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS

The Vatican changes its policies on nearly everything in their near 2 millenia history of existence.

scientists change their theories more often than that. who knows what raptors will look like in the next Jurassic Park

Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS

Look what they did to Galileo in the beginning. it took them CENTURIES to apologize for what they did to him.

did we say sorry? that's not like us.

never thought of the Borg that way. nice one.

[DammitJim]

Originally Posted by Botany Bay

So Kirk knows the true meaning of their religion. But the priests preaching war dont.

Kirk knows everything
let orci and kurtzman workout the details. I'm not a writer. if I was it would be me getting attacked on this forum and that scene with Kirk, Uhura and Galia wouldn't have ended with Kirk getting shoved out the door.

as to "the priest preaching war not understanding their own religion" was what I meant when saying that religious wars have sweet F.A. to do with religion.

[DammitJim]

Originally Posted by Indestructible Object

...or and this may seem like a novel idea for star trek fans... why not tackle those ideas/issues (BIGOTRY, FEAR, IGNORANCE, SELFRIGHTEOUSNES) from a HUMAN perspective not a national one, as they are all HUMAN problems.

friend, that is exactly what I was trying to.
you said it much better.
cheers.

[DammitJim]

Originally Posted by Botany Bay

Okay, listen, I have no clue what makes you go off on this. Whats wrong with an american perspective? Abrams, Orci and Kurtzman are americans. As far as I know they lived their whole life in the U.S. The sequel will be made in the U.S. Its a Hollywood movie. And as all Hollywood movies it will focus on an american audience. Therefor it will forcingly have an american perspective.
I really dont know whats wrong with that.

see Indestructible Object 's post for the well-written answer to that.

[JSnyder4]

Originally Posted by Indestructible Object

...or and this may seem like a novel idea for star trek fans... why not tackle those ideas/issues (BIGOTRY, FEAR, IGNORANCE, SELFRIGHTEOUSNES) from a HUMAN perspective not a national one, as they are all HUMAN problems.

Yeah!
A film about hardcore Star Trek fans!


Oh. You said for Star Trek fans. Nevermind....

[Samuel]

Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS

The Vatican actually does follow a Borg like pattern in the past during their rise to power. A LOT of stuff in the Catholic mythos is stuff that the Catholic Church literally assimilated from other cultures and religions. A lot of it is NOT original thought. Thomas Aquinas was quite an original thinker for his time though, I'll give them that.

Q also depicts pretty much how the God of the Old Testament acts. All powerful, but prone to the pettiest of emotions like jealousy and wrath.

Hmmm. Never thought of Q and borg that way. I would like to think I am pretty good at reading between the lines but those went over my head.

Q was all powerful but never held up as a god by a people or culture (AFAIK). Maybe he thought of himself as one but there were no worshipers or religion. I saw the borg in more of a communistic context. People were not converted to a religion with a god to worship but forced into a collective to serve the state and their leader... who wasnt a god. So perhaps that means any religious overtones in those cases were dealt with too vaguely or lacked metaphorical tie-ins so people would get it. Thats why the borg with words like 'collective' have more obvious meanings.

Oh and as for the borg again. They didnt even have a leader until the movie. And actually she didnt describe herself as one. I forget the exact words but she said she was more of a bonding agent and than a leader. Maybe sort of like the big brother type that nobody ever saw except as a face on the television.

[RedShirtsRuS]

Originally Posted by DammitJim

scientists change their theories more often than that. who knows what raptors will look like in the next Jurassic Park

The difference between science and religion is that science THRIVES on questioning itself and changing any falsehoods as new evidence comes to light. Religion thrives on pretending it never changes even though it does so inevitably.

As for the "American" perspective. Which one exactly?

The Deep South American perspective?

The Yankee American perspective?

The African American perspective?

The Amish American perspective?

America is diverse enough that it CAN represent the world when you think about it.

America IS diversity.

We can do away with calling it the "American" perspective and we can call it the "diverse" perspective if it sits better with everybody.

I'm not an American by the way. I just understand and appreciate how diverse America is.

[Indestructible Object]

Originally Posted by DammitJim

see Indestructible Object 's post for the well-written answer to that.

Awh shucks, I'm blushing! Thanks!

[Indestructible Object]

Originally Posted by JSnyder4

Yeah!
A film about hardcore Star Trek fans!


Oh. You said for Star Trek fans. Nevermind....

I should have made it clear that my statement was laced with sarcasm. I expect Trek fans to understand that it is about all of us together, not one group above the rest!

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS

As for the "American" perspective. Which one exactly?

Okay, I really dont know what people keep misunderstanding. So, lets say the next movie would deal with bigotry and fear from a german perspective. A current german discourse that is distorted and heavily affected by bigotry, fear and ignorance could be the ongoing debate about the mindset of the eastern german population. The debate is wether or not the eastern german people have worked off their GDR past. Yet several important factors are willfungly ignored, belittled, distorted, stripped from context. Now one could take this conflict and make it be set in space. Yet I really have my doubts this would be understood by an american public or a french public. For them the whole metaphor would be lost. They would not see why the movie is of importance or for whom.

On the other hand the United States have their own discourses. Torture is a topic. The value of diplomacy over military action is a topic. The best way to handle terrorism is a topic. All those discourses are distorted by bigotry, fear and ignorance. And taking those discourses and using them as a template for a conflict in space, that is a metaphor that would be understood by the american audience. And because the european audience is quite versed in american discourses too, that is why europeans would understand it too. The same for a russian audience, an aisan audience or an arab audience.

You see what I mean?

Take the Undiscovered Country! It dealt with fear and bigotry from an american perspective and the whole world understood it. Why? Because the United States are the last remaining world dominating superpower. American discourses dominate the news all over the world. Its like in the ancient roman empire. Romans may not have known what was going on in northern Gaul, but northern Gaul knew what was going on in Rome.