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Old 05-20-2009, 09:16 AM
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Default Alternate Reality in New Trek Movie

I was reading an interview the screenwriters (Orci/Kurtzman) recently did in which they explained the influences behind their timetravel plot in the new Star Trek movie.

The most important of those mentioned was the Next Generation episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" in which an Enterprise C Class Starship travels into the future thru a tear in the space-time continuum. As it enters the future or passes thru the tear, the future/present of the Enterprise D crew is altered, unbeknowest to everyone on the ship except Guinan.

In the Star Trek movie something similar to this happens. Except, instead of a ship from the past appearing in the future, altering the future, a ship from the future enters the past altering the past. So the past is altered, an altered reality is created in place of the one that existed before. Its a little puzzling to me how a ship from the future can alter the past, wouldn't it just alter its own future? So if Romulus was destroyed, couldn't that future be averted or altered by the Romulan ship just going into the past? Of course the Romulan ship would alter events in the past beginning from the point of its enterance into the past. But what about after its destruction? At the end of the film its destruction and the destruction of the singularity that brought it into the past occur simultaneously, but this doesn't alter all that's transpired from the point of its entry into the past, such as the destruction of Vulcan, although we do have some precedent for this type of thing occurring, such as the famous Voyager episode where Voyager destroys a timeship, resulting in the resetting of everything prior to the timeship's incursions.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:19 AM
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huh??
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:27 AM
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I think you're forgetting that they're not working with time in the linear sense in this film; instead adopting more current theories of time/space mechanics; that, and any of the temporal singularities employed in those stories may have been a different occurance in nature as opposed to the one in the new film.
Different properties, etc.
Science fiction is fun.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:58 AM
delliott101 delliott101 is offline
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Here's my take....

This movie takes place in a parallel universe apart from the Prime Trek universe from the beginning... BEFORE Nero shows up. Why?

Look at the Kelvin. Wayyy more advanced than ANYTHING we saw from the earliest days of TOS. I think this parallel universe branched out as a result of the events of First Contact... but even THAT movie may have been set in a parallel universe (the Prime Enterprise E and the Borg travelled back in time to this other universe).

This new "prime" universe was the one featured in Star Trek: Enterprise and continues into this new film. The altered timeline affects the reality of this different universe. Why were the events of First Contact and Enterprise set in this other universe?

A few reasons... but the biggest reason is Zephrane Cochrane. He's not Cochrane of Alpha Centuri, as mentioned in TOS episode "Metamorphosis" -- doesn't act like him or look like him. This is an alternate Earth-bound Cochrane who "discovers" warp drive. I quote "discovers" because the Vulcans had it already and certainly other races. The TOS Cochrane sounds like he discovered it first... before any other race.

Anyway, ST:Enterprise is a direct offshoot of the First Contact time line. NOTHING I could fine in Enterprise even suggests that it takes place in the same timeline as the other series (even the finale of Enterprise is in dispute canon-wise). The look of the Kelvin, the uniforms, the equipment, etc all appears to be a logical progression from Enterprise... if we look at "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before", as well as TOS as a whole, there is NO WAY Starfleet would have progressed from NX-01. It would have been a step backwards design-wise.

Even all that aside... we have already experienced alternate reality/parallel universe Trek. I mean, without time travel, etc... where?

Gold Key comics. OBVIOUSLY set in a parallel Trek universe. There are so many differences to note.

All (or most) of the novels. Especially the ones of the 1970's. I would include the James Blish adaptations. There are several differences between those and the televised episodes.

I would even contest WNMHGB as being in a parallel universe. A universe where Kirk's middle name begins with "R" and too many differences with TOS that I would consider that a different universe, too.

That's my viewpoint and 2 cents. What if Nero's ship went back in time to a alternate universe? It's THAT universe's reality that has been changed... not the Prime Universe's reality

Last edited by delliott101 : 05-20-2009 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:08 AM
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What is this "prime" stuff about?

It is all sci-fi (syfy for NBC/U viewers) and is meant to entertain us.

Plus, the threads on "how the movie violates canon" are incorrect.
This movie takes place in an alternate reality, so their is nothing to violate, it is a clean slate.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:12 AM
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Ok, Trek has established the "multiverse" many times in the various series, which basically states that anything that could happen, has happened in an alternate universe, and that there is an infinite ammount of them.
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Old 05-20-2009, 10:35 AM
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There are arguments for the new timeline being a straight split off of the complete and intact original timeline or as an alternate that already existed.

The problem is, if one takes it as being an alternate even before we see the Kelvin, the difficulty is in deciding when amongst the previous time travel stories did it split from.

Did it split from First Contact? Did it split from Voyage Home? Did it split from the very first TOS episode to use time travel (whose name convieniently eludes me at this point) - there's more than one point.

The you have to consider - did each and every use of time travel technically create an alternate timeline from that episode onwards?

There's no way to prove when the alternate was begun really.

So - while I take onboard all the arguments for the latter option - for the sake of not wanting to dwell on it for years to come.

I'm going with that we saw Universe A as the TOS universe which then split into universe B at the moment of the Narada's arrival.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
There are arguments for the new timeline being a straight split off of the complete and intact original timeline or as an alternate that already existed.

I'm going with that we saw Universe A as the TOS universe which then split into universe B at the moment of the Narada's arrival.
Besides, I believe that's when the writers intended the changes to start from. delliott101 makes a good point about the Kelvin. It's too advanced to be from the same universe that gave us Kirk's Enterprise in TOS; and Kirk's Enterprise was supposed to be the Fleet's flagship and the fastest Starship in the Fleet, but its more primative internally and smaller than the Kelvin which is around at the time of Kirk's birth. However, "Yesterday's Enterprise" provides the key that this universe could have been altered at the moment of Nero's arrive as Enterprise D was at the moment of the arrival of the Enterprise C.

Of course, this all speculation that's trying to make things seem as if they were all flawlessly worked out, which we know isn't how reality works in this Prime Universe.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delliott101 View Post
I think this parallel universe branched out as a result of the events of First Contact...
Nah. It's a result of Scotty's giving that guy in Voyage Home the formula for transparent aluminum.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chator View Post
Besides, I believe that's when the writers intended the changes to start from. delliott101 makes a good point about the Kelvin. It's too advanced to be from the same universe that gave us Kirk's Enterprise in TOS; and Kirk's Enterprise was supposed to be the Fleet's flagship and the fastest Starship in the Fleet, but its more primative internally and smaller than the Kelvin which is around at the time of Kirk's birth. However, "Yesterday's Enterprise" provides the key that this universe could have been altered at the moment of Nero's arrive as Enterprise D was at the moment of the arrival of the Enterprise C.

Of course, this all speculation that's trying to make things seem as if they were all flawlessly worked out, which we know isn't how reality works in this Prime Universe.
Well, they can't ever be reconciled because they were all made too far apart. It's the same argument that Archer's ship was clearly more advanced looking as well that led some to justify it was in an alternate as well.

TOS can never be visually reconciled with any other Trek because of the particular stylistics of the 1960s when it was made.

Voyage Home and Yesterday's Enterprise could be used as points where a new timeline had been created already, but I just end up going round in circles with it all.

It's easier to keep it to the simple, because it was never really made to be analysed so much anyway!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sohna View Post
Nah. It's a result of Scotty's giving that guy in Voyage Home the formula for transparent aluminum.
After reading the Orci interviews and thinking about it - that actuallyt would be a more likely point of divergence. Assuming there had just been the one.

But because time travel basically just does my head in, I go for the straightforward option. Universe A to Universe B.
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Last edited by kevin : 05-20-2009 at 11:32 AM.
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