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Old 05-18-2009, 12:14 PM
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Default Straight up. In the sequel, Kirk needs to show some vulnerability.

In Star Trek, Pine's Kirk was terrific as a beginning phase of that character, a rebel, a guy who makes Captain in no time, who saves his world and his ship and his Captain and for whom everything goes his way. In the sequel, in order to make the character more real, we need to see Kirk starting to realize that he has responsibilities to his ship and crew, and that being a starship Captain isn't all fun and games. He also should begin feeling that strange attatchment to his ship, and that attatchment should get in the way of his personal life, because that's part of who Kirk is. He should win in the end, of course. But there should be a price to paid for it this time. Perhaps the loss of someone he's close to, a young officer he sees potential in and spends time mentoring perhaps, and yet they die a meaningless red-shirt death on some backwater planet. Something to that effect. Kirk is the ultimate boy scout, he's clever, resourceful and able to pull a victory out of just about any defeat. But he should begin to learn that not all victories are complete, perfect and wrapped up in pretty paper and a bow, and that those victories are often expensive, in terms of human lives. So far everything he's done has worked, but I want to see how it hits him, rocks him, when everything doesn't go off exactly as he planned it. And, I want to see someone call him on it. Probably McCoy, since that's part of his character as well.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:53 PM
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Sheesh, give the guy some time. He just got out of his dysfunctional life before Starfleet where he had vulnerability and imperfection to spare. He'll have time to confront the personal and professional challenges of leadership moving forward, but he's officially been captain for about two minutes of screen time now.

Btw, Jim Kirk has been a lot of things, but he was never a boy scout.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:00 PM
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I definitely wouldn't say that Jim Kirk is a guy who had everything go his way. Not by a long shot. I do agree about the attachment to his ship, I hope we get to see that begin to form.

Also, I don't think the win against the Narada was a clean win by any means and I think he understands the stakes and risks. Imagine how many of his Academy friends didn't come back after Nero destroyed the armada? He watched a planet bite it and take millions of people with it and not to mention his experience with the mindmeld. I think Kirk understands the cost of the victory and there definitely was a high cost.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:18 PM
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Heck, that didn't happen in Trek virtually until TWOK and TSFS (maybe City on the Edge of Forever was one of the very few times on TOS) so if we keep to that pattern we'll be waiting a long time for him to show his vulnerability.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:25 PM
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I thought the scene when Spock mind melds with him, that he showed vulnerability quite well, from the shock of knowing what happened because of it.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Heck, that didn't happen in Trek virtually until TWOK and TSFS (maybe City on the Edge of Forever was one of the very few times on TOS) so if we keep to that pattern we'll be waiting a long time for him to show his vulnerability.
Now you see, that isn't quite right, he showed some humanity and vulnerability in even the earliest episodes. In WNMHGB his desperation and dismay showed through brilliantly when he had to kill someone who used to be his friend, but who had become uncontrollable, even though Mitchell had betrayed his old friend in the throes of his God-like ego, Kirk still gave he and Deiner a good report in the log "lost in the line of duty" I believe. And he showed he wasn't callous and unfeeling when he let McCoy have it for pining over Nancy Crater when two Enterprise crewmen had been killed in "The Man Trap".
There's more there to see if you're looking close.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
In Star Trek, Pine's Kirk was terrific as a beginning phase of that character, a rebel, a guy who makes Captain in no time, who saves his world and his ship and his Captain and for whom everything goes his way. In the sequel, in order to make the character more real, we need to see Kirk starting to realize that he has responsibilities to his ship and crew, and that being a starship Captain isn't all fun and games. He also should begin feeling that strange attatchment to his ship, and that attatchment should get in the way of his personal life, because that's part of who Kirk is. He should win in the end, of course. But there should be a price to paid for it this time. Perhaps the loss of someone he's close to, a young officer he sees potential in and spends time mentoring perhaps, and yet they die a meaningless red-shirt death on some backwater planet. Something to that effect. Kirk is the ultimate boy scout, he's clever, resourceful and able to pull a victory out of just about any defeat. But he should begin to learn that not all victories are complete, perfect and wrapped up in pretty paper and a bow, and that those victories are often expensive, in terms of human lives. So far everything he's done has worked, but I want to see how it hits him, rocks him, when everything doesn't go off exactly as he planned it. And, I want to see someone call him on it. Probably McCoy, since that's part of his character as well.
Perhaps have Carol Marcus leave him too because his new life isn't working out so hot. I think it'd be a much darker movie than this one, but it sounds like a great idea. Actually now that I think about it, it sounds similar to where the dark knight went with batman. It would also be a great build up to a third.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:47 PM
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Perhaps have Carol Marcus leave him too because his new life isn't working out so hot. I think it'd be a much darker movie than this one, but it sounds like a great idea. Actually now that I think about it, it sounds similar to where the dark knight went with batman. It would also be a great build up to a third.
That's not a bad idea. I can just hear her screaming at him: "You care more about that G&**%$M ship, than you do me!". Excellent.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:02 PM
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Kirk got his *** kicked three times in the movie. Plus, he never scored with Uhura. (I hope that didn't need a spoiler notice).
That's a little vulnerability.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
In Star Trek, Pine's Kirk was terrific as a beginning phase of that character, a rebel, a guy who makes Captain in no time, who saves his world and his ship and his Captain and for whom everything goes his way. In the sequel, in order to make the character more real, we need to see Kirk starting to realize that he has responsibilities to his ship and crew, and that being a starship Captain isn't all fun and games. He also should begin feeling that strange attatchment to his ship, and that attatchment should get in the way of his personal life, because that's part of who Kirk is. He should win in the end, of course. But there should be a price to paid for it this time. Perhaps the loss of someone he's close to, a young officer he sees potential in and spends time mentoring perhaps, and yet they die a meaningless red-shirt death on some backwater planet. Something to that effect. Kirk is the ultimate boy scout, he's clever, resourceful and able to pull a victory out of just about any defeat. But he should begin to learn that not all victories are complete, perfect and wrapped up in pretty paper and a bow, and that those victories are often expensive, in terms of human lives. So far everything he's done has worked, but I want to see how it hits him, rocks him, when everything doesn't go off exactly as he planned it. And, I want to see someone call him on it. Probably McCoy, since that's part of his character as well.

I actually agree with you somewhat. I like cocky Kirk, but would like to see some vulnerability in the next film. He has to have some growing pains. Let's see it.
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