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Old 05-17-2009, 11:06 PM
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Default Just thinking about this...

...Make my head hurt, so hear goes.

Ok, we know that Spock had to stop the Nova of a that Star with "Red Matter", thereby causing the star to collapse into a Black Hole.

What was created instead, was more of a Portal through time. (Unless black holes do that alot, lol.) So, Red Matter must have some qualities that Spock had not consdidered.

Now: The "Black Hole/Portal" sent Nero and his ship back in time 154 years. We know this, as Spock told the young Kirk, in 2258, that "129 Years from now" I.E. 2387. The Narada appears in 2233.

Ok. Deep Breath. Here is what I was thinking about, and I would like to hear from others, if you did as well:

If the Red Matter caused a Star to turn into a "Black Hole". and also to Vulcan, but not as big, would it become a "time portal" like the Star did??

If so, would the wrecks of the ships be drawn into it, to appear in the past, near Vulcan? Or would the Black Hole comsume Vulcan of the past?

If the Portal/Black Hole were to appear, say, in orbit of Vulcan of the past, and the Ships remains survive...what would the Vulcan Science counsel do about it? Reconstruct what happened..(or what will happen?) etc. And how far back in time? 50 years? 100? Would a new timeline branch off?

See what I mean? I hope I don't give anyone else a headache, lol.

I would like to hear what y'all think.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:37 AM
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I was given the impression that "Red Matter" was like TWOK's "Proto Matter"... some sort of highly unstable substance with crazy unpredictable side-effects (ressurection anyone?).

Perhaps the other black holes that were created were the typical "crush you dead" variety...

Though it still leaves the door open to bring Nero back at some point.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Son of Xonk View Post
...Make my head hurt, so hear goes.

Ok, we know that Spock had to stop the Nova of a that Star with "Red Matter", thereby causing the star to collapse into a Black Hole.

What was created instead, was more of a Portal through time. (Unless black holes do that alot, lol.) So, Red Matter must have some qualities that Spock had not consdidered.

Now: The "Black Hole/Portal" sent Nero and his ship back in time 154 years. We know this, as Spock told the young Kirk, in 2258, that "129 Years from now" I.E. 2387. The Narada appears in 2233.

Ok. Deep Breath. Here is what I was thinking about, and I would like to hear from others, if you did as well:

If the Red Matter caused a Star to turn into a "Black Hole". and also to Vulcan, but not as big, would it become a "time portal" like the Star did??

If so, would the wrecks of the ships be drawn into it, to appear in the past, near Vulcan? Or would the Black Hole comsume Vulcan of the past?

If the Portal/Black Hole were to appear, say, in orbit of Vulcan of the past, and the Ships remains survive...what would the Vulcan Science counsel do about it? Reconstruct what happened..(or what will happen?) etc. And how far back in time? 50 years? 100? Would a new timeline branch off?

See what I mean? I hope I don't give anyone else a headache, lol.

I would like to heat what y'all think.
That is a cool idea and a good point! I mean, if this red matter does create the sorts of blackholes that sent the Narada back in time and also destroyed Vulcan are the same blackholes. I mean, the Narada went through the blackhole without being destroyed and Vulcan was consumed by a blackhole made from the same stuff, what's the difference? It'd break the planet apart for sure, but something of all that debris may cross into another time and place, but who knows where that is?
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:23 AM
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That is a cool idea and a good point! I mean, if this red matter does create the sorts of blackholes that sent the Narada back in time and also destroyed Vulcan are the same blackholes. I mean, the Narada went through the blackhole without being destroyed and Vulcan was consumed by a blackhole made from the same stuff, what's the difference? It'd break the planet apart for sure, but something of all that debris may cross into another time and place, but who knows where that is?
Thank you for your imput so far. What if...the wrecks appeared in the same timeline as "Enterprise"? As a fan, maybe a book could go into this. I can see how the Vulcan Science Counsel of that period react to that...and Star Fleet would dispach Archer and Crew to Vulcan...
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:57 AM
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Wouldn't it be funny to see the planet emerge in pieces that rebuild each other (like a reversed version of the scene in STXI) in the next movie?
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:09 AM
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Son of Xonk

There are such things as chemical reactions and these react differently with different catalysts. Therefore in my Opinion the blackhole that was created from Vulcan Via the red matter has different properties than one created by a supernova Via the red matter.
So i do not believe a time portal could have been created from a planet
there would have to be more power behind it
So your theory may not hold up if you agree with my conclusions

What do you think
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by A-CollinsTWC View Post
I was given the impression that "Red Matter" was like TWOK's "Proto Matter"... some sort of highly unstable substance with crazy unpredictable side-effects (ressurection anyone?).

Perhaps the other black holes that were created were the typical "crush you dead" variety...

Though it still leaves the door open to bring Nero back at some point.
It didn't look unstable.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Tribble-eater View Post
Son of Xonk

There are such things as chemical reactions and these react differently with different catalysts. Therefore in my Opinion the blackhole that was created from Vulcan Via the red matter has different properties than one created by a supernova Via the red matter.
So i do not believe a time portal could have been created from a planet
there would have to be more power behind it
So your theory may not hold up if you agree with my conclusions

What do you think
Intresting...a wormhole in other words.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:16 AM
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The mass of Vulcan collapses, but stays the same. It's just smaller now. The density's increased.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:16 AM
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Dont bother about it, seriously. Because the writers never cared to make it make sense. Not only does the Red Mater do one thing one time and a completely different thing another time, without any explanation given in the movie. The phenomenon of a "thunderstorm in space" also seems to appear everytime the Narada attacks, eventhough no black hole or time portal was formed. If the script needs a thunderstorm in space, then there is one, no explanation given. If the script needs a time portal, then Red Matter creates one, no explanation given. And when the script needs Nero to create black holes, then the Red Matter is used too, again without any explanation.
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