The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > Humanism and Star Trek
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:40 PM
Geodesic17 Geodesic17 is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 37
Default Humanism and Star Trek

Did anyone else think the movie lacked some good ole' subversive secular humanism?

http://www.religiondispatches.org/ar...s_anti-matters
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:46 PM
thegreatgallina thegreatgallina is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 32
Default

Def. This is really my only problem with the film (otherwise, I loved it). I thought the philosophy of Trek was lost somewhere. I can buy that the situation called for drastic measures and there was such urgency among the federation that little time could be afforded this area, but I hope the next movie gets to the basics and reminds people what the federation actually is.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:48 PM
thegreatgallina thegreatgallina is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 32
Default

a "humanitarian and peacekeeping" armada was a pretty bare-bones, missed the point, discription. Roddenberry explained again and again that Starfleet is not a military organization, its an explorative, scientific, and enrichment vehicle that just happens to arm itself for protection.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:57 PM
TMRiddle1912's Avatar
TMRiddle1912 TMRiddle1912 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 256
Default

I agree that it was missing political undertones, but I didn't have a problem with it's omission in this movie. The whole plot was to get the crew together. I disagree with the article about Nero and any other connections the author saw to the Bush era, also. As I stated above, I didn't get any politics vibes from this movie one way or another.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:02 PM
SpaceButler SpaceButler is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Default

For better or for worse, the key elements of Star Trek rarely make a good movie. What always stands out to me is in TNG at least, how few shots were fired, how you could so often find a way to work things out and reason with people. Of course this gave me, as an impressionable child, a very unrealistic view of the world. For movies though, they run onaction, which is why TMP didn't work as a movie, First Contact was all action and no plot, and Nemesis was like two movies in one that didn't really coexist. This is all action and as that it works, I'm just not really sanguine about getting the Trek feel on the big screen.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:11 PM
TMRiddle1912's Avatar
TMRiddle1912 TMRiddle1912 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceButler View Post
For better or for worse, the key elements of Star Trek rarely make a good movie. What always stands out to me is in TNG at least, how few shots were fired, how you could so often find a way to work things out and reason with people. Of course this gave me, as an impressionable child, a very unrealistic view of the world. For movies though, they run onaction, which is why TMP didn't work as a movie, First Contact was all action and no plot, and Nemesis was like two movies in one that didn't really coexist. This is all action and as that it works, I'm just not really sanguine about getting the Trek feel on the big screen.
I'm glad you put rarely, because I can think of three good Trek movies that kept the key elements intact. TWOK, TVH, and TUC all had good character development, plots, and political undertones, especially TVH and TUC.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:18 PM
martok2112's Avatar
martok2112 martok2112 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: River Ridge, LA
Posts: 6,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegreatgallina View Post
a "humanitarian and peacekeeping" armada was a pretty bare-bones, missed the point, discription. Roddenberry explained again and again that Starfleet is not a military organization, its an explorative, scientific, and enrichment vehicle that just happens to arm itself for protection.
And happens to have rank and chain of command, courts martial for disciplinary cases, military decorum and protocol....yeah...really not military.

I do not say this ill toward you, greatgallina, but toward the contradictions that often dotted GR's vision.

I wouldn't say so much that Star Trek missed the point as GR missed the mark.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:22 PM
SpaceButler SpaceButler is offline
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Default

*edit* I agree completely, but you have to admit that 2 and 6 are focused more on battles than the average trek episode, and it's the general setting of exploration rather than war that makes them stand out, if that makes any sense. You need the tense neutral-zone standoffs to be the norm to raise the stakes and make it a story where the actions and principles matter.

Last edited by SpaceButler : 05-14-2009 at 06:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:29 PM
TMRiddle1912's Avatar
TMRiddle1912 TMRiddle1912 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceButler View Post
I agree completely, but you have to admit that 2 and 4 are focused more on battles than the average trek episode, and it's the general setting of exploration rather than war that makes them stand out, if that makes any sense. You need the tense neutral-zone standoffs to be the norm to raise the stakes and make it a story where the actions and principles matter.
I don't remember any battles in four, but then again, I haven't seen it for a while.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-14-2009, 06:33 PM
TMRiddle1912's Avatar
TMRiddle1912 TMRiddle1912 is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 256
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
And happens to have rank and chain of command, courts martial for disciplinary cases, military decorum and protocol....yeah...really not military.

I do not say this ill toward you, greatgallina, but toward the contradictions that often dotted GR's vision.

I wouldn't say so much that Star Trek missed the point as GR missed the mark.
I always thought of the UFP as a United Nations in space. The UN has peacekeepers, the UFP has Starfleet. Of course, the UFP seems to be able to manage itself better than the UN, probably because humans have been able to set aside their petty differences.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:29 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.