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Old 05-12-2009, 01:13 PM
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Default human vs God's Laws

I 've have been a very religious person all my life. Just like we are the children of a spirital being, we live under certain laws. As humans we are under human laws and are so subject to those laws . We should pay for bad deeds we have done. I just can't belive there are people out there that belive, we should just forgive. My husban and me had a discusion with my siter in-law about, a Caledonia man deported to Austria for Nazi crimes. She said that how can they send a man who can't walk and in pain. She said it was mean, that it was so many years ago. We told her he did a crime he should pay for it no matter what. She just did not get it. Oh and by the way, there where pictures and film on him walking , like nothing, and that is what lead for his deportation after all.

here is his story:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/41498322.html
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:25 PM
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Tell her to read up on the einsatzgruppen and she'll shoot the son of a ***** herself. He's one of those guys that shot babies and children - sometimes tens of thousands a day. My uncle was in WW2 and was at the liberation of one of the camps and he said it was so bad he threw up several times - and he was a combat soldier in the 101st Airborne.
I don't care if that old piece of turd has to crawl into the court room. I hope they string him up.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jerhanner View Post
Tell her to read up on the einsatzgruppen and she'll shoot the son of a ***** herself. He's one of those guys that shot babies and children - sometimes tens of thousands a day. My uncle was in WW2 and was at the liberation of one of the camps and he said it was so bad he threw up several times - and he was a combat soldier in the 101st Airborne.
I don't care if that old piece of turd has to crawl into the court room. I hope they string him up.
Trust me we have told her. I think it has to do with the fact that he has done may wrong things and wants people to forgive her. All she could say about his is that everyone makes mistakes. To me a person can make a mistake, when they don't know what they are doing, but when you well know that you are doing something wrong, you should pay for that action
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:37 PM
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Forgive and forget is only what the vicitim(s) can do, that's not the job of jurisdiction.

Suppose someone kills or rapes members of your family, gets caught 20 years later and his medical condition is bad. Would you like "prescriptive periods" for murder or rape, would you like that guy to remain in the hospital instead of a trial where he has to answer for his crimes? I guess not.

There is a reason "forgive and forget" or its counterpart "revenge" should be kept out of jurisdiction.

In this case, I wanna add the 'deportation' is a term which suggests that the transportion of an alleged war criminal to Austria is as unethical as the deportation and murder of jews he was involved in, so let's please not use it in this context.

It's also important to go after "little fishs", as especially in Germany people have a hard time accepting that many ordinary people commited these crimes and not just a bunch of nazi leaders.

One can question whether the respective US law to go after WWII criminals is adequate, as German I can tell you that Nazis who had more responsibility than this guy were in important functions in government and business after WWII and only the top dogs were prosecuted in Nuernberg. We even had a state governor in the seventies (!!!) who was judge, let soldiers be executed and just had to quit office but not go to jail after he said stuff like "what has then been right cannot be wrong today".

So while we were too lax, you US folks are perhaps too rigid about WWII criminals.

Last edited by horatio : 05-12-2009 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trekie View Post
I 've have been a very religious person all my life. Just like we are the children of a spirital being, we live under certain laws. As humans we are under human laws and are so subject to those laws . We should pay for bad deeds we have done. I just can't belive there are people out there that belive, we should just forgive. My husban and me had a discusion with my siter in-law about, a Caledonia man deported to Austria for Nazi crimes. She said that how can they send a man who can't walk and in pain. She said it was mean, that it was so many years ago. We told her he did a crime he should pay for it no matter what. She just did not get it. Oh and by the way, there where pictures and film on him walking , like nothing, and that is what lead for his deportation after all.

here is his story:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/41498322.html


Just curious. Has she seen the movie? If the Federation caught Nero, what should be his punishment? Now, what if the Federation caught one of Nero's henchmen. Say the fellow who tortured Pike or something. What about him? And one more question, who should have the trial: the Federation or the Vulcans? Even with all their intellect, their ancient culture, their devotion to learning, could the Vulcans be objective?
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Last edited by cjopbj : 05-12-2009 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:54 PM
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I understand where your sister-in-law's coming from but Nazi war crimes are some of the most heinous of crimes. Man's inhumanity to man. Any who committed them should be brought to trial if found. No matter what. That's owed to the victims, IMO.
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Old 05-12-2009, 02:02 PM
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Are war crimes still war crimes if you win the war? Is not being held accountable one of the spoils of war that goes only to the victor? I doubt anyone was ever held accountable for bombing Dresden. What about the torture at Gitmo? General Sherman said "War Is All Hell". If those starting it and those fighting it were all held accountable - win or lose - than perhaps the race to victory at any cost wouldn't be so urgent and so horrific.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:01 PM
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A quote from my alltime favorite film, Apocalypse Now, comes to mind- 'Charging someone for murder during war is like giving someone a speeding ticket at the Indianapolis 500'.
But I think the guy should go to trial. If he is guilty justice should be done.
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Last edited by That Metal Beastie : 05-12-2009 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 03:25 PM
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Oops, I misread the article, he wasn't a concentration camp guard but a soldier and involved in massacres. His guilt depends on whether he had a choice to oppose his superiors, whether they gave their soldiers some discretion, or not. I guess it is impossible to reconstruct such events, especially decades later.
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