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  #21  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by chator View Post
Sure there were violations like the Ferengi episode on Enterprise,
You really thought that was a canon violation? Don't forget the crew of the Enterprise never learned who the pirates were. Not until after the TNG crew first came into contact with the Ferengi could someone possibly put two and two together and say "they look like the pirates..."
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Last edited by MrQ1701 : 05-13-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:49 PM
Admiral Rand Admiral Rand is offline
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Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
Man, I don't think you can count on your fingers and toes how many canon violations there are in this film, but the point is moot. Abrams and Co. have taken a new direction and set this new series of films in an alternate timeline/reality in which the old rules aren't rules anymore, merely guidelines. If I was asked how much of the original series basic premise survived into this series, I'd say only about 50%. I can hear Abrams right now saying that old Darth Vader line: "I have altered the deal, pray I do not alter it any further.". That and the fact that STTFB is rapidly paying for itself and will doubtless turn a decent profit for Paramount says to me in a loud and clear voice that the battle for canon has been lost. We have left to us, the Enterprise, the Crew, The Federation, The Klingons, The Romulans, The Vulcans (as an endangered species colonizing a new homeworld, but they are still here!), The uniforms, Phasers and Photon Torpedoes (altered as they are), Starfleet Academy and The Creedo (These are the voyages....to boldy go where no one has gone before..etc.). Other than that, everything else is up in the air. In this new timeline, nothing that happened in TOS ever happened and most of what happened in TOS will never happen. We have yet to see what known characters will show up in whatever sequels are made. As far as the storylines and important incidents of TOS go, If I was asked how much of that is going to survive in this new series of films, I'd say only 5 to 10%. That is where we are, and unfortunately, the only place we have to start from. As a longtime fan, I'm not happy about that reality, but I've accepted it. It's the only way to go forward now. Now if we get a new television series based on events that take place in the old timeline, that would please a lot of fans, I was really hopeful about the rumors of the new series about Captain Ryker of the U.S.S. Titan, but with the success of the new movie, I now find the possibility of such a series highly unlikely. If we get a new series it will probably now be based in the new timeline, something akin to what they did with Battlestar Galactica, with lots of sexy female aliens and a woman playing Captain Wilhelmena Ryker and emasculated male characters just to make everything fair and balanced, you know, a modern T.V. show.
A Response to your five to ten percent idea. Someone once said to me There are millions different threads of time (Timelines) but there are places in which they all connect. Events that must come to pass. And i hope that Star Trek will do that. For instance in the new movie spock said something about this. I can't quite remember exactly how it went. But my point in all of this is that i think events that happened in the Prime timeline should also happen in this one and every other one. Like Spock turning down the science academy to join StarFleet. And in turn he met Kirk. I believe this is one of thouse events that would happen in every timeline.
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  #23  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JediTray View Post
Canon Schmanon.

The overly attached "canon police" fans are the very ones partially responsible for the near death of the franchise.
This is how I felt when ENT was canceled because too many fans shunned it like the plague. I LOVED ENT, but I HATE this new movie. ENT may have changed a few things, but it had the "soul" of Trek, it wasn't just a mindless shoot 'em up. I know things like "soul", will mean different things for each fan, but for me this was the FIRST Trek I did not like. It was a fun action movie, but NOT Trek.
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  #24  
Old 05-13-2009, 11:56 PM
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Please do. It'll make room for the fans that understand change is GOOD. You can stay home and pine for what was with your TOS DVD's.

For Trek to survive, onward and upward from 1960's campiness is the way to go!



BTW, it IS Trek, and it is beautiful.

-JT
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by JediTray View Post
Please do. It'll make room for the fans that understand change is GOOD. You can stay home and pine for what was with your TOS DVD's.

For Trek to survive, onward and upward from 1960's campiness is the way to go!



BTW, it IS Trek, and it is beautiful.

-JT
Was this directed at me? Don't you know how to quote?

Trek got rid of the '60's "campiness" long ago. Have you been living in a cave since then?

You must be easily amused if you think this movie was anything but a mindless action flick with similar characters and uniforms.
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  #26  
Old 05-14-2009, 01:06 AM
Vagrant Zero Vagrant Zero is offline
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This thread exists in an Alternate Reality.

In the Prime Reality, Star Trek is well loved and received by fans and newcomers alike.

In this Alternate Reality, the bozos (sic ) have come together in a cacophony of self-righteous nerd-rage.

RAWR!!! away gentlemen, your sound and fury signifies nothing.

Note: This post is not directed at the OP, but at the "truefans" who have degenerated this thread into a Slusho.
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2009, 04:47 AM
timelike timelike is offline
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To be honest, I don't see that there can be any comparisons with the original star trek Universe. If we accept that by entering the black hole, by arriving back in time then a new alternate Universe was created- a past as well as a future must also have been created, so not only the events of the present, but everything leading up to it will also be different as well.

Therefore any questions about what happened before in the previous Universe are not relavant in the new Universe. It is an entriely seperate entity from the one of the original series (whose past and future will of course remain in tact).

To sum up- two seperate Universe.
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:01 AM
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This is getting to be a tiring subject.
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:04 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
It's one of those: "Is your glass half full, or half empty?" things. If you're a full goose bozo alternate reality fan, there are no canon violations. If you're fan of old school Trek, it's a painful, bitter acceptance of a shiny new version of what you thought you knew so well. For those of us in the latter category, even though the new film was a good film and even though the new timeline could possibly be every bit as interesting and engaging as the old one, it's going to take some time for us to adjust. It's like having your arm broken and put in a cast and the doctor telling you: "That arm will come out of that cast as good as new, but you have to wear that cast for three months, and then have six weeks of physical therapy to learn how to use it again.".
That's pretty much my opinion as well. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Captain Sisko View Post
Ya, thanks for calling people on the forums bozo's...sheesh. And what the hell...I loved TOS, it was the first Trek in my life...and don't get all 'truefan' BS on me.
There are different degrees of fandom. Let me use BSG/NuBSG as an example. I watched BSG in the late 70's and enjoyed it very much. When the NuBSG was introduced in '04, I watched that too. I was taken aback by the cahnges, i.e. Starbuck's gender change for one. But I wasn't a big enough fan of the original for that to bother me too much. I could live with it. There were, however, other diehard fans of BSG that were obviously bigger fans than I who were outraged by the new version's blatant disregard for original "canon".

That's what is happening with NuTrek. The loyal, dedicated, diehard fans of TOS, such as myself, are outraged by the blatant disregard for established Trek history, and feel that this movie basically amounts to a slap in our collective faces. While other fans, like you, are perfectly happy with the changes. And don't see any problem with Star Trek history being turned topsy turvy. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. The "Truefan BS" you refer to is only a matter of interpretation. I interpret it as varying degrees of fandom, not who is a true fan and who is not.

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Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
You obviously misinterpreted me. Full goose bozo is a Robin Williamsanism for "all the way". He used the expression in one of his well known comedy routines. And as long as this is a forum that allows it's members the priviledge to express themselves, I'll get as all 'truefan' BS on you as I feel like, dig?
That's pretty funny. I love Robin Williams! But I've never heard him say that. Gotta look that one up!

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Originally Posted by Captain Sisko View Post
that's fine but you should know that the 'true fan' Bull**** is bull**** and pretty much makes you an elitist if anyone happens to pull that outta their ***. Oh, and ya, I totally 'dig' you.

Also I dislike Robin Williams.
What?!?!? How can you possibly dislike Robin Williams?!? Oh that tears it. Armageddon is nigh!!

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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
THIS is what all the fuss is about! You just said it yourself. Many of us fans wanted to see a true origin story. Many of us were very familiar with the Trek prime universe and THAT universe is the one we care to see stories told within. This movie basically wraps an entirely different "toy" and wraps in the 40 year old tradition of Trek and tries to sell it as such. It is NOTHING like Trek, not to me, and NOT to many people. In the end it doesn't matter because the fans that care about more than action are not important enough, nor go to the theater in large enough numbers, to make a difference in Paramount's decisions. If the next movie is as shallow as this one was, then I will simply stop watching any new Trek Paramount puts out. I think many people will do the same.
Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediTray View Post
Please do. It'll make room for the fans that understand change is GOOD. You can stay home and pine for what was with your TOS DVD's.

For Trek to survive, onward and upward from 1960's campiness is the way to go!



BTW, it IS Trek, and it is beautiful.

-JT
That's a matter of opinion. Mine differs from yours fundamentally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero View Post
This thread exists in an Alternate Reality.

In the Prime Reality, Star Trek is well loved and received by fans and newcomers alike.

In this Alternate Reality, the bozos (sic ) have come together in a cacophony of self-righteous nerd-rage.

RAWR!!! away gentlemen, your sound and fury signifies nothing.

Note: This post is not directed at the OP, but at the "truefans" who have degenerated this thread into a Slusho.
The prime reality has been erased. All future threads will exist only in this alternate reality. Nerd-rage will continue. "Truefans" will unite.

It's Trek, Jim, but not as we know it.
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:10 AM
Thascales Thascales is offline
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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
That's pretty much my opinion as well. Thanks!



There are different degrees of fandom. Let me use BSG/NuBSG as an example. I watched BSG in the late 70's and enjoyed it very much. When the NuBSG was introduced in '04, I watched that too. I was taken aback by the cahnges, i.e. Starbuck's gender change for one. But I wasn't a big enough fan of the original for that to bother me too much. I could live with it. There were, however, other diehard fans of BSG that were obviously bigger fans than I who were outraged by the new version's blatant disregard for original "canon".

That's what is happening with NuTrek. The loyal, dedicated, diehard fans of TOS, such as myself, are outraged by the blatant disregard for established Trek history, and feel that this movie basically amounts to a slap in our collective faces. While other fans, like you, are perfectly happy with the changes. And don't see any problem with Star Trek history being turned topsy turvy. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody is entitled to their opinion. The "Truefan BS" you refer to is only a matter of interpretation. I interpret it as varying degrees of fandom, not who is a true fan and who is not.



That's pretty funny. I love Robin Williams! But I've never heard him say that. Gotta look that one up!



What?!?!? How can you possibly dislike Robin Williams?!? Oh that tears it. Armageddon is nigh!!



Well said!



That's a matter of opinion. Mine differs from yours fundamentally.



The prime reality has been erased. All future threads will exist only in this alternate reality. Nerd-rage will continue. "Truefans" will unite.

It's Trek, Jim, but not as we know it.
Using the term 'truefan' to mean people who dislike the new film due to it not slavishly adhering to the old canon is a poor idea. It suggests that if you like the new film despite or because of the changes, you aren't a 'true fan', which is, in a nutshell, pretty insulting and presumptuous. And, needless to say, wrong.

And I have to ask... '"truefans" will unite'... and do what? Simmer angrily while also being united? Send nasty letters? Set up their own movie studio, buy the Star Trek rights from Paramount for countless hundreds of millions of dollars, and continue in the prime timeline as if XI never happened? What?

Last edited by Thascales : 05-14-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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