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Old 05-13-2009, 02:23 AM
Magnum Magnum is offline
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Default Star Trek Thoughts (More than likely Rants)

Well I have been to a lot of other fan sites about Star Trek. This forum for Star Trek is in the minority when it comes to positive thoughts on the new movie. On a few Fan based forums, they warn people about coming to this forum saying its a "company" forum. What are your thoughts on this? What I find amazing are how many people are livid in their hatrid of the new Star Trek movie. Yet I see no mention of that here in this forum.

I read in another thread (Here in these forums) that there were no star trek fans in a full theatre of 20-29 year olds. So I guess Paramount has gotten what it wants, Fans who don't give a flip about 43 years of Star Trek History.

I find it amazing that several dozen authors over the years have had to work with Canon and have come up with amazing, origional and imaginative stories (Pardon my spelling errors) Why couldn't paramount had hired one of these authors to write a good script? Several still write about the normal Kirk-Spock-McCoy universe. I would say there are about 300 or more stories about the TOS with Kirk Spock etc in them. Thats a lot of good origional story material to work with.

I wonder, what if Abrams had decided to stick with canon and make this movie we saw with the TOS Enterprise? Would it had been as good as this one? (Same script, (Pine as kirk,) just the ship etc were canon) We do not know what the young audiences would had thought if abrams had made a Star Trek Movie in the style of the 1960's. A lot of people have said it would be a disaster, (Here on the forums that is) but are they sure? And how do they know it would be a disaster to had stuck with the TOS? No one hired good writers to make a movie in the TOS style so we will never know.

The books that have been written about the TOS often make the Top 25 or so on book selling charts. That shows they are popular still.

Another thing, I have not seen many people say that the TOS was old and showed its age. However, I have read many people say Star Trek is still as good as ever after 43 years. But I have not seen that in this forum.

Many people say that this studying the canon is a waste of time. I can name several college courses (With full credit mind you) that study less real subjects than Star Trek Canon.

So these are my thoughts. As a Star Trek Fan of 43 years, I feel a few on these forums don't care that we fans have watched over star trek, written novels about it, and supported it by buying the DVDs over all those years. I saw nothing in the movie that appealed to the Fans. Only stuff designed to lure in replacement fans,

And thats my Opinion.
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  #2  
Old 05-13-2009, 03:16 AM
Sneiko Katratze Sneiko Katratze is offline
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Which forums are you refering to?

I plan to visit them.
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Old 05-13-2009, 03:33 AM
Vagrant Zero Vagrant Zero is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
Well I have been to a lot of other fan sites about Star Trek. This forum for Star Trek is in the minority when it comes to positive thoughts on the new movie.

I stopped reading right there since the rest of your post seemed like it was heading into tinfoil territory.

The reason you see an overwhelmingly positive response to the movie here ISN'T because of some grand conspiracy by paramount to control your brain, it's because the overwhelming response to the movie has been positive EVERYWHERE.

Same random craphole on the internet doesn't change that. I could link you to where the rather pathetic diehards of the Original Battlestar hang out. If you simply surf their forums you'll come away with the impression that the majority of old school fans hate the new Battlestar and that's so far out of touch with reality it borders on something you'd expect to see in the trekkie fanbase. Oh wait...we are seeing it in the trekkie fanbase. Fancy that.

The truth is those "diehards" are so freaking obnoxious (like the trekkie diehards) that they were thrown out of the majority of communities by their more rational peers. That's their final little haven, where they can gather together, and nerd-rage without persecution and ridicule (and oh were they ridiculed...I miss the glory days).

The reality is this:
Trek has grossed 87Mil in 4 days. This is win. End of line.

And finally a disclaimer. Paramount is controlling my brain and forcing me to post this. RAWR.
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  #4  
Old 05-13-2009, 05:00 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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I can understand the viewpoint of a lot of the diehard fans. I have actually checked out a couple of discussion forums dealing with the new Trek movie and Magnum is right. There's a lot of hate. But here, on this one, we all try to get along. Regardless of the way we feel about the new movie. This forum is just more civilized than some of the others I've seen. That's why I'm a member here and nowhere else. I, personally had major misgivings about this movie once the pictures and plot points first started to appear. I am a "die hard" fan, as some like to point out. I have been a TOS fan for over 30 years. And I was not happy with the changes that Mr. Abrams had wrought upon my favorite sci-fi franchise. I'm still not happy about it, but I can live with it because of the alternate reality concept in that this movie is not a part of the original Trek universe. That universe that includes TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and all the movies still exists, continues, and has the potential to be revisited at some point if CBS and TPTB deem it appropriate. I don't like the Abramsprise, the iBridge, or the new Engineering section. But I feel that the actors did great in their roles. Especially Karl Urban's Bones. Absolutely spot on. I was extremely upset over the destruction of Vulcan, death of Amanda, and the rediculous Spock/Uhura...thing. But I can deal with it given the knowledge that this movie is not an attempt to overwrite or erase the last 43 years of established Star Trek history. I don't like it. But there's nothing I can do about it now. So I have no choice but to deal with it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:08 AM
Kataan Kataan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero View Post
The reality is this:
Trek has grossed 87Mil in 4 days. This is win. End of line.
My only only complaint is while 87mil in 4-days is good, they still a little further to go to break even since I was reading somewhere that it cost something like 140mil to make this movie. Will they make the 140mil, probably, but I just want to point out that most other movies are judged to as sucsessful once they pass the break even point. If this movie goes onto make only $142 million, was it sucessful? Yes to some degree because they did make their cash back. But from what I have seen in Hollywood succesful is when you spend 50 million to make a movie and you make 100 million in sales. Lots of people have been pointing out that this movie surpassed all the other star trek movies by a long shot, but isn't that like comparing apples to oranges as far as money goes. As far as I know all the other trek movies at least broke even with the cost to produce vs final sales figures. And I am pretty sure that none of them cost 140 million to make, but I could be mistaken. Imagine what 140 million dollars might have done for one of the lesser liked star trek films that didn't do as well? Just some thoughts.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2009, 05:27 AM
Kataan Kataan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum View Post
Well I have been to a lot of other fan sites about Star Trek. This forum for Star Trek is in the minority when it comes to positive thoughts on the new movie. On a few Fan based forums, they warn people about coming to this forum saying its a "company" forum. What are your thoughts on this? What I find amazing are how many people are livid in their hatrid of the new Star Trek movie. Yet I see no mention of that here in this forum.

I read in another thread (Here in these forums) that there were no star trek fans in a full theatre of 20-29 year olds. So I guess Paramount has gotten what it wants, Fans who don't give a flip about 43 years of Star Trek History.

I find it amazing that several dozen authors over the years have had to work with Canon and have come up with amazing, origional and imaginative stories (Pardon my spelling errors) Why couldn't paramount had hired one of these authors to write a good script? Several still write about the normal Kirk-Spock-McCoy universe. I would say there are about 300 or more stories about the TOS with Kirk Spock etc in them. Thats a lot of good origional story material to work with.

I wonder, what if Abrams had decided to stick with canon and make this movie we saw with the TOS Enterprise? Would it had been as good as this one? (Same script, (Pine as kirk,) just the ship etc were canon) We do not know what the young audiences would had thought if abrams had made a Star Trek Movie in the style of the 1960's. A lot of people have said it would be a disaster, (Here on the forums that is) but are they sure? And how do they know it would be a disaster to had stuck with the TOS? No one hired good writers to make a movie in the TOS style so we will never know.

The books that have been written about the TOS often make the Top 25 or so on book selling charts. That shows they are popular still.

Another thing, I have not seen many people say that the TOS was old and showed its age. However, I have read many people say Star Trek is still as good as ever after 43 years. But I have not seen that in this forum.

Many people say that this studying the canon is a waste of time. I can name several college courses (With full credit mind you) that study less real subjects than Star Trek Canon.

So these are my thoughts. As a Star Trek Fan of 43 years, I feel a few on these forums don't care that we fans have watched over star trek, written novels about it, and supported it by buying the DVDs over all those years. I saw nothing in the movie that appealed to the Fans. Only stuff designed to lure in replacement fans,

And thats my Opinion.
Thank you Magnum, that's similar to what I am seeing in other places also.

Speaking of canon history , my heart and soul was aching last night after I finished watching the three episode Enterprise arch about the bombing of the Federation embassy on Vulcan, IE "The Forge, "Awakening" and "Kir'Shara". Here we have a three episode story, 3 hours worth, basically laying some rich history about the planet Vulcan and her people and at the same time laying the initial groundwork for Earth getting out from underneath the Vulcan shadow and some precursors to the formation of the Federeation as we know it.

All of this and more, was obliterated in a matter of minutes with the destruction of Vulcan and 99% of her people in the new movie. This isn't about being a fanatic or being anal, it's about the standard and precident that was set along time ago regarding star trek canon and the line that would not be crossed. It's been mentioned before in this thread and others, that other writers have went to enormous lenghts to maintain this set precident regarding trek history and canon. I'm done rantig for now, again thanks Magnum.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:28 AM
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FanWriter45 FanWriter45 is offline
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Okay... movies are made from money borrowed from the bank. That means the clock starts running on the interest the moment the movie is "green lit." The general rule of thumb is that a movie at that budget level needs to do almost twice it's production cost to go into profitability...

(If you want an explaination of how this stuff works, look up a back issue of "Fantastic Films" from the late 70's, which had an article on "The Selling of Superman" which detailed what the financial acrobatics are like for putting together a blockbuster like this.)

There is little doubt that Star Trek will be a hit. Aside from the money being brought in domestically, there are world wide profits to contend with, DVD sales, and merchandising. I don't think it will become another Star Wars-like phenomenon, but it will be very, very successful.
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:33 AM
Magnum Magnum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Zero View Post
I stopped reading right there since the rest of your post seemed like it was heading into tinfoil territory.

The reason you see an overwhelmingly positive response to the movie here ISN'T because of some grand conspiracy by paramount to control your brain, it's because the overwhelming response to the movie has been positive EVERYWHERE.

Same random craphole on the internet doesn't change that. I could link you to where the rather pathetic diehards of the Original Battlestar hang out. If you simply surf their forums you'll come away with the impression that the majority of old school fans hate the new Battlestar and that's so far out of touch with reality it borders on something you'd expect to see in the trekkie fanbase. Oh wait...we are seeing it in the trekkie fanbase. Fancy that.

The truth is those "diehards" are so freaking obnoxious (like the trekkie diehards) that they were thrown out of the majority of communities by their more rational peers. That's their final little haven, where they can gather together, and nerd-rage without persecution and ridicule (and oh were they ridiculed...I miss the glory days).

The reality is this:
Trek has grossed 87Mil in 4 days. This is win. End of line.

And finally a disclaimer. Paramount is controlling my brain and forcing me to post this. RAWR.
Why don't you at least comment on the books. Several authors have found it easy to stay in canon. Many of their books hit the top 25 or higher.

I feel if Abrams had stuck to canon, used pine as Captain Kirk, the film would had hit 200 million by the 4th day of release.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2009, 05:34 AM
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captain spock captain spock is offline
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I think there was a marked attempt to dis the star trek geeks. Even the media does not have articles or photos of Geeks in their Star trek gear. Yet I feel the writers attempted to appease them by including Spock and the time line explanation. They have even taken time to explain some supposed discrepancies. As a 32 year fan of Star Trek (I watched TOS on reruns with a 9" Black and White TV, read many books, and own every show/movie except the series "enterprise" I for one am happy with the reboot. One "hater" said it had to much action, and should have attempted to reach out to "Nero" pooh. Did Kirk reach out to Kahn? Did Kirk reach out to the Klingon's that killed his son? Did Kirk reach out to the Klingon's who boarded the Enterprise? My theory is that some are Next Gen fans that can't get into TOS. In my opinion I am happy for the return to the feel of TOS. As to the amount of money spent... Plot is more important. But marketing was done perfectly. No one has reached out to everyone better that Abrams.

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  • "Or the one." (one=star trek purists)-- Kirk (Star Trek II)
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:09 AM
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mmoore mmoore is offline
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Quote:
I think there was a marked attempt to dis the star trek geeks. Even the media does not have articles or photos of Geeks in their Star trek gear.
I'm on record as saying that if I saw any costumes I'd walk on by. I am happy to report that I entered the theater at 5:40 pm on May 9 and viewed the movie without incident. Not so much as a commbadge anywhere in sight.
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