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Old 02-17-2008, 01:20 PM
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Redshirt Bob Redshirt Bob is offline
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Default What, exactly, do we already know is canon?

This is straight out of the Star Trek Encyclopedia, so we know what has already been established so we can discuss what is and is not canon.

A timeline:
2230 - Spock is born on Vulcan, son of Sarek and Amanda.
2233 - James T. Kirk is born in Iowa on Earth.
2237 - Hikaru Sulu is born in San Francisco on Earth.
2239 - Uhura is born on Earth.
2243 - Dr. Richard Daystrom invents duotronics, the basis for the computer systems used aboard the Enterprise.
2245 - The first Starship Enterprise, NCC-1701, is launched. Captain Robert April commands the ship's first five-year mission of exploration. Pavel A. Chekov is born.
2249 - Spock enters Starfleet Academy.
2250 - Kirk enrolls in Starfleet Academy. As a cadet, he serves aboard the U.S.S. Republic.
2251 - Christopher Pike assumes command of the Starship Enterprise. He heads two five-year missions of exploration into the unknown.
2252 - Spock, a cadet at Starfleet Academy, begins serving aboard the Enterprise under Captain Pike.
2253 - Spock graduates from Starfleet Academy.
2254 - Kirk graduates from Starfleet Academy, the only cadet ever to beat the infamous "no-win" Kobayashi Maru training scenario. Kirk is assigned to U.S.S. Farragut. Starship Enterprise at Talos IV.
2261 - David Marcus, son of James Kirk and Carol Marcus, is born.
2264 - James T. Kirk begins historic five-year mission in command of the Starship Enterprise.

So we see the film has plenty of ground to cover. Kirk is in Starfleet for ten years before he takes command of the Enterprise, and served on the Farragut before then. We don't know when he came to the Enterprise and that Spock had already graduated when Kirk beat the Kobayashi Maru. There's a lot of gaps to cover and I assume this is what the production staff means when they say their story jumps around a lot.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:24 PM
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Look at all that room we have to make some new history.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:25 PM
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That's a handy summary, Redshirt Bob. Nice work.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:07 AM
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Nice work Redshirt.

It would be difficult for them to follow this completely and have a coherent movie that was less than 10 hours long though.
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Old 02-18-2008, 07:34 AM
ZaphodBeeblebrox ZaphodBeeblebrox is offline
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Interesting Chronology.

I wonder where this film will come in as the characters graduated at different times. And Chekhov is 15 years younger than Spock. Makes sense that it may jump around a bit.

Being a viewer of JJ Abrams "Lost", this comes as no surprise.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaphodBeeblebrox View Post
Being a viewer of JJ Abrams "Lost", this comes as no surprise.
Ain't that the truth!
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:14 AM
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See, I even question that the timeline in The Encyclopedia is canon. Kirk and Spock being only 3 years apart, and being at the academy at the same time, doesn't work at all based on what is said in the show. I would think that the things actually on the show, not compiled by fans afterwards, need to be considered "canon". Canon is at the time of "The Enterprise Incident" Spock had been a Star Fleet Officer for 18 years. Canon is that at the time of "The Deadly Years" Kirk was 34 years old. That math does not put them at the academny at the same time and it doesn't allow for them to be only 3 years apart.

I was under the impression that the theory of "an academy movie" had been debunked in favor of the currently popular "Terminator" story of a bad Romulan going back to various points in time in an effort to kill Kirk.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:41 AM
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Who's to say that Spock might not be a visting instructor at the Academy during a refit of the Enterprise, or inbetween missions/duty cycles? Or a guest lecturer? Not unheard of in today's naval Academys. Which Starfleet is based on.

I think this as an "Academy" movie is Paramount throwing fans off the true sent of the story. Paramount has been doing false story leads for decades. Ever since GR leaked the death of Spock in TWOK, and the script had to be rewritten because of it. GR did it because mainly he was PO'd that he'd been left out of the film and just given a ceremonial title in the cedits.

BTW-Paramount has ordained the Encyclopedia and Cronology as "cannon." While I think some of the dates are arbitray (like others here do), it's is almost impossible to reconsile dates in the Trek universe to a cretainty until TNG.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:22 PM
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That could be worked out, but it's not what is presented in the first post as "canon"...in that post, they are 3 years apart in age, but 1 year apart at the academy...

While the Okuda's are definitely worthy of respect and to be held as authorities, when they try to reconcile the affection people feel for the idea of Kirk and Spock as academy mates with the words in the scripts, they come up short because, frankly, it just doesn't work. In order to make it happen that they are cadets together, Kirk has to be extraordinarily young....but that can't be reconciled with the canon statements in the episodes that his first deep space mission was 11 years before the episode "Obsession".

It makes far more sense to adopt Roddenberry's original idea: Spock is a lot older, has been in Star Fleet far longer than Kirk. Accepting that makes just about all the age/year references reasonable. The only reason to refuse to accept it is because people really, really want to believe that Spock and Kirk were at the academy together.

I just don't see the need to tweak canon in order to appease fan fic writers. I'll note that when fan fic has provided an answer to something Star Trek left unanswered, I have no problem with the "powers that be" adopting that answer. The obvious example being Hikaru Sulu's name...in the series and first 5 movies, he was not given a first name. However, fan fic adopted the name Hikaru for him and the writers for the 6th movie accepted it and made it canon.

I'll go on record now as saying we'll hear Lt. Uhura referred to as Nyota in this movie. Fan fic has accepted it. Ms. Nichols has embraced it. It's so endimic that IMDB lists the character's name as "Nyota Uhura"...but it's never been mentioned in a script.

But...making ridiculous assertions simply to get the two of them at the Academy together? That is wrong.

Diving into what might be a sensitive subject: lots of people write fan fic in which Spock and Kirk are a couple. They love, love, love to write "academy" stories. However, if Spock were to be a visiting adult speaker or Kirk a 13 year old prodigy (either of which would reconcile the ages/years mentioned ) those stories would enter the realm of EEEWWWW! Improper contact!!! Since the fan fic writers don't want that, it's not desirable to present such a logical solution...the solution that satisifies them is to ignore the words in the script and declare that Spock and Kirk are really quite close in age and were cadets at the same time (though, given the lifespan of Vulcans I never thought Spock being 10-15 earth standard years older made him much higher on the "adulthood" scale than Kirk ).
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:44 PM
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It does look like you're don your home work dude...that's a world of ground to cover.
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