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  #71  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:21 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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After seeing the movie...and liking it, somewhat, I have to say that I have some issues. This was a good movie, don't get me wrong. It was great fun to watch. But it just wasn't Star Trek for me. There were too many plot holes (not that Trek hasn't had them in the past) and unnecessary changes for my taste.

Having Nero destroy the entire planet Vulcan a'la' Alderaan in SW, and making Spock watch as Tarkin did Leia was a direct shot at the die hard Trekkies.

The Spock/Uhura thing was extremely uncomfortable for me to watch. Didn't like that at all. It was totally unwarranted and unnecessary. And it just felt wrong on so many levels. It was nothing more than JJ Abrams once again letting long time fans like me know under no uncertain terms that this ain't our Star Trek anymore. Wonder how they are going to handle that in future movie istallments?

The SW-like warp/hyperdrive effect looks cool, but ain't Star Trek. After 40+ years, I kinda got used to the stars flying by real fast.

The pulse phasers (blasters) look and sound too Star Warsy. Beam weapons are the standard for Star Trek. There was no need to change them. There were also other sound effects, especially Kirk's motorcycle and the shuttlecraft, that definitely sound like they could have come from SW (or the Jetsons).

Scotty's little sidekick. I really hope he/it isn't in the next movie. We don't need a Jar Jar in Star Trek. Look at how well he was received by the SW community.

I really hated engineering. Why did it look that way? Just because JJ needed to distance this movie as far away from Star Trek as possible to appeal to a broader audience. That was no reason to make Engineering look like a beer factory.

Water "turbines"? WTF? Is the Abramsprise powered by turbines??? What the heck are they for? My guess is they were there simply for the purpose of putting Scotty in a little peril and giving Kirk a chance to rescue him. They are like the GNDN pipes. The serve absolutely no purpose.

Engineering was frakking huge! Does that section take up the entire secondary hull? I can't wait to see a technical schematic of the Abramsprise. To see not only how orca huge that behemoth is but also to see what the 450 million pipes are for. I'll bet they all say GNDN.

What's with all the girders and trusses? I can understand their being used for structural integrety....DUH!!!! The Abramsprise was built on the GROUND!! They needed all those trusses and braces to keep the interior of the blasted thing from collapsing in on itself under its own weight!! There's another advantage to building starships in outer space. Once completed, the inertial dampening fields and structural integrity fields could do the same job as all those bulky trusses, crossbeams, and tubular braces that permiate the ship. Another reason the Abramsprise sucks targ booty!

There were a lot more, but I'll have to watch the movie again to refresh my memory. I saw it on 5/9 so it's been a few days. Besides. I'm tired.
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  #72  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:38 AM
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RedShirtWalking RedShirtWalking is offline
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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
So the lame design of the engine room was solely to take people's attention off the lame design of the bridge? Wouldn't it have been a better idea to make both look better?
It's lame to you. I think they both looked great and so do a lot of other people.


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It was convenient for the writers. That way they don't have to deal with the transporter making things "less exciting" and they get to put in the "kewl" orbital free fall stuff. It also makes things easier for the writers. Instead of working a little harder and making something where the use of the transporter would be part of an exciting sequence, they "break" the transporter because that way the get the excitement they way. This happened a lot in TOS as well.
So, you're criticizing the writers for trying to make something interesting instead of boring? OK...right...plot devices never get used in other movies. Ever.


Quote:
A starship, yes 100 years in the future a starship would have more advanced weapons. A mining ship? Not so much.
So, a mining ship should have older technology and never advance. Got it.


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It strikes me as illogical (now the Enterprise is one life pod short just to get Kirk of the ship) and excessive. Unless the brig was broken.
That's your supposition and it's not supported by anything in the script. However we know that Spock isn't nearly as in control of his himself and is "emotionally compromised." His response was illogical and emotional. Sure, it was a plot device, but not out of character for a younger and less-in-control Spock. What if he didn't want him in the Brig? As was said before, Kirk wasn't supposed to be on the Enterprise in the first place and Spock knew it.


Quote:
14 km is right next to him when you consider the size of a planet (even a small one).
How long did you want this movie to be? I can hear it now, "Personal Log, day 12. I'm still walking across Delta Vega. I hope to find someone soon. I'm freezing my *** off."


Quote:
First, it wouldn't take a scientist to figure out how Nero could save his planet and wife and family. Second, who cares if the Romulans would have believed him, given his ship and weaponry the Romulans couldn't have stopped him.
So, Nero is just supposed to conquer the Romulans? Seriously? So, if it wouldn't take a scientist, you're saying a miner could save Romulus. And that's predicated on....what, exactly? Him just showing up, hailing the planet and saying, "Guys...the planet's going to be destroyed by a super nova in 129 years!" C'mon...


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Star Trek has a long history of non-bipedal aliens (e.g. the Horta), so why not tie-in to those ideas and try to make it more TREK than WARS. Of course, that's not what JJ wanted to do though and that's why we've got Star Trek Wars (or is it Star Wars Trek?).
Let me get this straight...you want them to tie in some of those ideas and try to make it more Trek than Wars. What does the alien need, then? No legs? It needs to be a blob, is that it? JJ uses some non-bipedal aliens and you're STILL unhappy?!? Why isn't anyone comparing Star Wars to Jurassic Park just because a bigger dinosaur eats another dinosaur essentially saving the characters?? It's just easier for people to trash JJ because he grew up a Star Wars fan and it's just old at this point.

Of course the movie isn't perfect, but this is just silly.
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  #73  
Old 05-12-2009, 08:43 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
11. Kirk's clown hands. Did we really need that?
That scene was kinda funny. Wierd, but funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
10. Letting Willy Wonka design the engine room.
All I can say about the engine room is that it was horrible. I didn't like it in the least. It was way too 20th century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
9. That whole plot point about how using the planetary drill thing (suspended improbably by what looks like a mega-huge strand of barbed wire) conveniently disrupts transporter beams and communication.
True. But then you wouldn't have had the super cool spacejump scene and needless death of a redshirt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
8. Mining ships of the future have enough weaponry to destroy a Starfleet armada. What exactly are they mining? (Yes, we know there is an explanation for this in the prequel comic, but if you need to read the comic to explain the movie, that's a problem. Would explaining it to the movie audience have been that difficult?)
That bugged me too. I haven't read the comic. But I've read enough about it to know that the ship was modified with Borg technology. But you shouldn't have to read a prequel comic to understand why certain things are the way they are. But the movie was two hours long already. There just wasn't enough time to add drawn out explanations. However necessary they may have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
7. Uhura casually tells her roommate that she translated a mysterious message detailing the destruction of a Klingon fleet by a large, Romulan ship, but fails to inform her captain until he's about to fly into a trap.
She had no way of connecting the dots. She couldn't have known that it was Nero or that he was heading to Vulcan. It took Kirk, Pike, and Spock to finally figure it all out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
6. If he's getting so much action, why can't one of Spock's emotions be, you know, kinda happy? Why so dour, my Vulcan friend?
He just lost his home planet and his mother. He has no real reason to be happy at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
5. Rowdy officers must be jettisoned off the ship in life pods and left on ice planets. Apparently the brig was broken?
There was no reason for that except to get Kirk to meet up with Scotty and Spock Prime. Or else they would have had to contrive another way for them to meet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
4. It's OK, though, because if you do that, the person in the life pod will manage to land right next to THE ONLY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET who has also been stranded there.
See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
3. The bridge is the best place to bring suspected saboteurs. OK, this is actually a time-honored Trek tradition. But still.
Yep. But there were plenty of security personnell there. Including "cupcake". And if Kirk wasn't on the bridge, he couldn't have provoked Spock and gotten the s*** kicked out of him while nobody does anything about it until Sarek calls Spock's name and gets him to let go of Kirk's throat before he kills him. Whew. I got the run-on sentence blues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
2. If you accidentally get sent back 25 more than 150 years in time, it's better to take revenge on the person who was unable to save your planet than to actually, you know, TRY TO SAVE YOUR PLANET!
But then there wouldn't have been a movie. That's like asking why didn't Picard just go back to Amorgosa and stop Soran before he did any harm at all? The movie would've been real short.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
1. The random Star Wars and Cloverfield-like monsters appearing for no particular reason.

http://scifiwire.com/2009/05/11-thin...-star-trek.php
The monsters weren't that big a deal for me. The scene on Hoth..er...Delta Vega where the big creature kills the little one and then goes after Kirk reminded me of the scene inThe Phantom Menace on Naboo. "There's always a bigger fish". But yeah. There were a lot of SW references in this movie. I was expecting that. Just not to the degree that I saw.
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  #74  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:15 PM
ivanandzorro ivanandzorro is offline
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Originally Posted by Flamegrape View Post
An entire planet populated by one of the most beloved alien races in the history of sci-fi going *KABLOOEY!* made me go WTF?
I think this makes Star Trek XII titled The Search for Vulcan. I just hope Rambaldi can make an appearance so we can find out that red matter was really his device. Or Sloan! He should still be alive right? Someone can just dig him up in XII.
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  #75  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:54 PM
jdneri jdneri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
11. Kirk's clown hands. Did we really need that?

Well, why not? It humanized Kirk and allowed for a comical interaction between him and Bones. This is not a new concept, but a long held Star trek tradition. Besides, the audience loved it, myself included.

10. Letting Willy Wonka design the engine room.

Now you are just nitpicking. The engine room looked much more functional that previous incarnations. It looked like an engine room, you know, a place where enginey stuff happens. I loved the exposed latices and rivets. It made the ship more functional and grounded in hyper-reality.

9. That whole plot point about how using the planetary drill thing (suspended improbably by what looks like a mega-huge strand of barbed wire) conveniently disrupts transporter beams and communication.

It wasn't the drill, but the laser-beam that was being emmitted by it that was disrupting the ships systems. We have seen less explained happenings throughout Star Trek history. Not a plot-hole at all, but a necessary plot-pont to progress the story.

8. Mining ships of the future have enough weaponry to destroy a Starfleet armada. What exactly are they mining? (Yes, we know there is an explanation for this in the prequel comic, but if you need to read the comic to explain the movie, that's a problem. Would explaining it to the movie audience have been that difficult?)

I actually agree with this. However, the systems of the mining ship were obviously designed to break apart ore-rich moons and asteroids. A ships hull would be easy pickings. I am suspending my disbelief on this point.

7. Uhura casually tells her roommate that she translated a mysterious message detailing the destruction of a Klingon fleet by a large, Romulan ship, but fails to inform her captain until he's about to fly into a trap.

Uhura never states that she believes she is the only one who has heard it, just that she heard it. She also made it clear that she was doing something that she wasn't supposed to do. Remember, this is not the Uhura we are used to, she is a green cadet without experience. Besides, it was Kirk who conected the dots and made it into the important plot point that it was. The Star Trek galaxy is a big place and stuff happens all the time. Captains would never in any way be able to or expected to know everything that happens always.

6. If he's getting so much action, why can't one of Spock's emotions be, you know, kinda happy? Why so dour, my Vulcan friend?

His homeworld blew up.

5. Rowdy officers must be jettisoned off the ship in life pods and left on ice planets. Apparently the brig was broken?

Spock jettisoned Kirk intetionally near the starfleet outpost on the ice planet. He was not being dramatic, but making a command decision to expell a stowaway.

4. It's OK, though, because if you do that, the person in the life pod will manage to land right next to THE ONLY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET who has also been stranded there.

I assumed that this happened so that Spock could gather inteligence from the starfleet outpost and actually know what was happening off planet. Nero wouldn't have put him in a cave where he would not be able to assertain whats happening. Or, Spock could have been making his way to the outpost in order to be rescued, just like Kirk was.

3. The bridge is the best place to bring suspected saboteurs. OK, this is actually a time-honored Trek tradition. But still.

Actually you make a valid point. And like you said, a Trek tradition.

2. If you accidentally get sent back 25 more than 150 years in time, it's better to take revenge on the person who was unable to save your planet than to actually, you know, TRY TO SAVE YOUR PLANET!

Yeah, but Nero is nuts and consumed with revenge.

1. The random Star Wars and Cloverfield-like monsters appearing for no particular reason.

No particular reason? How about creating an exciting scene that the audience could be on the edge of their seats for? Besides, not every monster in any movie has to be compared to another. Monsters work because they work. Just because they have worked in the past does not mean that they can never be used in the future.

I think that this movie was fantastic. as a huge trek fan, I did find fault with a couple of the changes. However, I am officially saying that Star Trek is back!! I am willing to make a few consesions in order to actually get some new movies and maybe shows. Everyone was saying Trek was dead and to be honest I can see why it had stalled. The only way that Paramount will continue is if it reaches a larger audience than just the diehard fans. Well, they have succeeded. I can't wait for more!!!

Trek fan for life

http://scifiwire.com/2009/05/11-thin...-star-trek.php

Trek fan for life
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  #76  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:34 PM
jdneri jdneri is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpeoccasio View Post
11. Kirk's clown hands. Did we really need that?

Well, why not? It humanized Kirk and allowed for a comical interaction between him and Bones. This is not a new concept, but a long held Star trek tradition. Besides, the audience loved it, myself included.

10. Letting Willy Wonka design the engine room.

Now you are just nitpicking. The engine room looked much more functional that previous incarnations. It looked like an engine room, you know, a place where enginey stuff happens. I loved the exposed latices and rivets. It made the ship more functional and grounded in hyper-reality.

9. That whole plot point about how using the planetary drill thing (suspended improbably by what looks like a mega-huge strand of barbed wire) conveniently disrupts transporter beams and communication.

It wasn't the drill, but the laser-beam that was being emmitted by it that was disrupting the ships systems. We have seen less explained happenings throughout Star Trek history. Not a plot-hole at all, but a necessary plot-pont to progress the story.

8. Mining ships of the future have enough weaponry to destroy a Starfleet armada. What exactly are they mining? (Yes, we know there is an explanation for this in the prequel comic, but if you need to read the comic to explain the movie, that's a problem. Would explaining it to the movie audience have been that difficult?)

I actually agree with this. However, the systems of the mining ship were obviously designed to break apart ore-rich moons and asteroids. A ships hull would be easy pickings. I am suspending my disbelief on this point.

7. Uhura casually tells her roommate that she translated a mysterious message detailing the destruction of a Klingon fleet by a large, Romulan ship, but fails to inform her captain until he's about to fly into a trap.

Uhura never states that she believes she is the only one who has heard it, just that she heard it. She also made it clear that she was doing something that she wasn't supposed to do. Remember, this is not the Uhura we are used to, she is a green cadet without experience. Besides, it was Kirk who conected the dots and made it into the important plot point that it was. The Star Trek galaxy is a big place and stuff happens all the time. Captains would never in any way be able to or expected to know everything that happens always.

6. If he's getting so much action, why can't one of Spock's emotions be, you know, kinda happy? Why so dour, my Vulcan friend?

His homeworld blew up.

5. Rowdy officers must be jettisoned off the ship in life pods and left on ice planets. Apparently the brig was broken?

Spock jettisoned Kirk intetionally near the starfleet outpost on the ice planet. He was not being dramatic, but making a command decision to expell a stowaway.

4. It's OK, though, because if you do that, the person in the life pod will manage to land right next to THE ONLY OTHER PERSON ON THE PLANET who has also been stranded there.

I assumed that this happened so that Spock could gather inteligence from the starfleet outpost and actually know what was happening off planet. Nero wouldn't have put him in a cave where he would not be able to assertain whats happening. Or, Spock could have been making his way to the outpost in order to be rescued, just like Kirk was.

3. The bridge is the best place to bring suspected saboteurs. OK, this is actually a time-honored Trek tradition. But still.

Actually you make a valid point. And like you said, a Trek tradition.

2. If you accidentally get sent back 25 more than 150 years in time, it's better to take revenge on the person who was unable to save your planet than to actually, you know, TRY TO SAVE YOUR PLANET!

Yeah, but Nero is nuts and consumed with revenge.

1. The random Star Wars and Cloverfield-like monsters appearing for no particular reason.

No particular reason? How about creating an exciting scene that the audience could be on the edge of their seats for? Besides, not every monster in any movie has to be compared to another. Monsters work because they work. Just because they have worked in the past does not mean that they can never be used in the future.

I think that this movie was fantastic. as a huge trek fan, I did find fault with a couple of the changes. However, I am officially saying that Star Trek is back!! I am willing to make a few consesions in order to actually get some new movies and maybe shows. Everyone was saying Trek was dead and to be honest I can see why it had stalled. The only way that Paramount will continue is if it reaches a larger audience than just the diehard fans. Well, they have succeeded. I can't wait for more!!!

Trek fan for life

http://scifiwire.com/2009/05/11-thin...-star-trek.php

Trek fan for life
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  #77  
Old 05-12-2009, 06:01 PM
Omitted Kingdom Omitted Kingdom is offline
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I wondered why Scotty sat down at a desk littered with paper, in the 23rd century. Surely all engineering is done electronically/digitally in the 23 century? mebbe not.

In the trailer, I thought it appropriate that Scotty looks like he's covered in amniotic fluid. I was delighted to see where he "landed" when he landed in the Enterprise. Remember, Scotty was from Scotland, and an engineer, because the Scots excel at engineering. I thought that was Gene Roddenberry's rationale for the character.

When a movie Eric Bana has already made, The Time Traveler's Wife, is finally released later this year, you'll see Eric's charcter "land" in one or two funky places. Maybe the writers were borrowing from that idea.

Water symbolizes rebirth, renewal, rejuvenation, so Scotty's debut was appropriate from a mythology point of view.
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  #78  
Old 05-12-2009, 06:18 PM
axiomatic7 axiomatic7 is offline
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I wish they had put a little more into omg seeing Romulans for the 1st time on the Kelvin bridge.

Drew
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