[martok2112]

Originally Posted by Kataan

That's an interesting observation Martok2112. I am just curious as to why star trek would have to take the road of darkness/dread the same way that the re-imaged BSG did to be appealing. I always thought that Roddenberrys original premis was to have a show that gave us hope as a race to demonstrate that we could become more than we are today. Devoid of things such as strife and hunger and LOL the need for money as our root reason for living. I always liked that about trek and wonder why we have to have dark/dread movies to like them. Don't we live with enough darkness and dread in the world today without having to see it in our movies also.

Don't we all still like happy ending? There used to be a time when it was taboo to kill a main character off, these days it's common place and almost expected if a show is to be successful...why is that? Can't we have a good show that has darkness and dread to overcome but still end on a happy note?

Thank you, Kataan.

And it must be said that despite the darkness of the new movie, there is hope and a happy ending.

Though Vulcan is gone...there is hope. Spock Prime found a new planet for the estimated 10,000 surviving Vulcans to colonize, and thus rebuild. The essence of Vulcan culture was preserved with the few people that young Spock was able to save.

Even in the remake of Battlestar Galactica, which was indeed almost pitch black in its darkness, there was, in the end, and bespeckled throughout the series, the sense of hope....if you've not seen the end of the new series, I won't spoil anything for you.

They say it is always darkest before the dawn. I think new movies today exemplify that.

[Kataan]

Originally Posted by Kallen

So basically, the folks making this argument are going to "miss" the established timeline? Ok, I can accept that. Thank you for clarifying.

But, I do think that SOO much has been done in the prime timeline, there's not much left. There's no breathing room. Let's say JJ made a movie in the prime timeline, set around the same timeframe. There would be SOO much already established that any story would have suffered. Where would be the sense of doom, if we know nothing bad can happen. The only real way around this would be to create a new ship and crew, THEN there would be wiggle room. Could a good story be written, using Kirk and gang, in the prime timeline of TOS? Yes, yes they could have. But using a new timeline completely opens the door for anything to happen. in this new timeline, anyone can die. Not knowing what HAS to happen, IMO, makes it much more exciting than being to able say, "ok, on stardate so and so point that, this or that WILL happen..." Now ANYTHING can happen. The prime timeline is now 43 years old, and has been very well written. This new timeline can be so awesome if we, the fans, give it a chance. Think about it. They can mention something, a planet, a person, and we can know what should have hapened (did happen in the prime timeline) and see how it might have been different, through the eyes of this new timeline. That sort of exploration and story telling is EXACTLY what Trek has always been about.

As much as I would like to Kallen I can't argue with you point of view because I really do understand what you are saying.

Let me counter in a small way and ask why couldn't they have somehow written this new trek movie to involve a new crew of a USS Enterprise that takes place sometime 100 years or so after Nemisis. That gets Picard and crew out of the way and still opens the door for fans like yourself that want a larger open door to writing new stories and adventures. By doing this you would have your larger open door to write new stories and it would have satisfied my interest in keeping it within the original shows timeline.

To me this would have been the best of both worlds, you are free to write new adventures with a new USS Enterprise, without the chains of having to worry about playing the old characters, while at the same time you would have the original history to fall back on to fill in the backstory to when necessary. I don't think this would in anyway have constrained it's success!

[Kataan]

Originally Posted by lonstar70

I contend a clean reboot would have been bettter anyway, which is what you seem to think of this as. BSG did it.

Anyway, it's too late, it's done. I don't see the point of fighting it anymore. What is it you want?

I contend that Star Trek has stood in the wind, through the good and the bad, for over 4 decades, 5 series, 10 movies and hundreds upon hundreds of hours of episodes, on it's own, without the need for a so called clean reboot. It's not a fair comparison to try and compare Trek to BSG, there is no comparison, they are not even close!

And it's never to late, any true trekkie knows exactly what I am talking about! We have been there, thru the fire and the rain, believe me we know it's never to late!

To be honest I don't see anything I have done that demonstrates that I am fighting about anything. I am just expressing an honest bewilderment as to why certain aspects of the movie had to occur in order for the moive to be "good" And still to this post I have not read one clear cut good response other than, well just because! Yes I understand the whole lets do new adventures and stuff argument but I think I have explained my thoughts on that in this and other posts.

What do I want, nothing other than the keep enjoying the trek that I love and grew up with, and maybe to have to good debates with other forum folks

[Kallen]

Well, one problem I would forsee with the introduction of a whole new crew would be backstory. I mean, 80% of the movie would be spent just introducing the crew. Who are they? Why are they who they are, etc. I don't believe that such a movie would have been successful. While it could certainly have been a great movie, I don't think that it would have garnered as much success at XI has already. And at that point, we're back to Nemises. Making a movie just for the sake of making a movie. Look where that line of thought has left the franchise until this point. I would be all for a new crew set after the TNG timeframe, but I belive that sort of story would be better served hundred fold by a series that can take time to develope character relationships whereas in a 2 hour window you really can't. So possible? Absolutley. Feasable? No.

[exidement99]

Originally Posted by Kallen

Well, one problem I would forsee with the introduction of a whole new crew would be backstory. I mean, 80% of the movie would be spent just introducing the crew. Who are they? Why are they who they are, etc. I don't believe that such a movie would have been successful. While it could certainly have been a great movie, I don't think that it would have garnered as much success at XI has already. And at that point, we're back to Nemises. Making a movie just for the sake of making a movie. Look where that line of thought has left the franchise until this point. I would be all for a new crew set after the TNG timeframe, but I belive that sort of story would be better served hundred fold by a series that can take time to develope character relationships whereas in a 2 hour window you really can't. So possible? Absolutley. Feasable? No.

If this is for new fans, it shouldnt matter. the old fans dont need explaining on who these characters are. how did he explain who these characters are to the new fans??? its as feasible as this movie was.

[JSnyder4]

Originally Posted by martok2112

LOL! Why do you think I have 2112 in me moniker?

Attention all planets of the solar federation
Attention all planets of the solar federation
Attention all planets of the solar federation
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.
We have assumed control.

Rock on JJ!

[PatrickGSR94]

Originally Posted by Kataan

As much as I would like to Kallen I can't argue with you point of view because I really do understand what you are saying.

Let me counter in a small way and ask why couldn't they have somehow written this new trek movie to involve a new crew of a USS Enterprise that takes place sometime 100 years or so after Nemisis. That gets Picard and crew out of the way and still opens the door for fans like yourself that want a larger open door to writing new stories and adventures. By doing this you would have your larger open door to write new stories and it would have satisfied my interest in keeping it within the original shows timeline.

To me this would have been the best of both worlds, you are free to write new adventures with a new USS Enterprise, without the chains of having to worry about playing the old characters, while at the same time you would have the original history to fall back on to fill in the backstory to when necessary. I don't think this would in anyway have constrained it's success!

I don't think that would have been as successful as this film was. This film uses characters that almost everyone has at least heard of through pop culture if nothing else, so that part is at least somewhat familiar to everyone, even the non-fans. To put it in a time beyond TNG would make everything new and unfamiliar to everyone, and probably would not have had the draw from even the main Trek fans, and even more so the non-fans. I think alot of the draw of this movie for the non-fans is seeing how the familiar characters have been "re-done".

[Kataan]

Originally Posted by exidement99

If this is for new fans, it shouldnt matter. the old fans dont need explaining on who these characters are. how did he explain who these characters are to the new fans??? its as feasible as this movie was.

It sure is as feasible, if not more so in respect to be given more liberties in not effecting the original time. You are basically starting from scratch with a new crew with a ship named Enterprise and you would have canon history behind you to back up you new action packed adventures when you need it.

I am betting this movie spend less than 5 minutes introducing the universe and each main character to any new audience members to trek, and anyone who already knew the history, well already knew the universe and characters.

[Kallen]

Originally Posted by exidement99

If this is for new fans, it shouldnt matter. the old fans dont need explaining on who these characters are. how did he explain who these characters are to the new fans??? its as feasible as this movie was.

I wasn't refering to this movie and explaining who the characters are. I was responding to Kataan's comment about instead having made a movie about a whole new crew, one that we (fans) had never heard of.

[PatrickGSR94]

Originally Posted by Kallen

I would be all for a new crew set after the TNG timeframe, but I belive that sort of story would be better served hundred fold by a series that can take time to develope character relationships whereas in a 2 hour window you really can't. So possible? Absolutley. Feasable? No.

Exactly. Movies that arise from TV series should use the same characters as in the TV series, since the backstory is already established and people are familiar with them.

This is one reason I never really got into the books that delve further into the Klingons and some of the other far reaching stuff from ST universe: the familiar characters aren't there. I'm sure the books are good, I've just never had the urge to read them.