[janeway72]

Originally Posted by kevin

Yes....we then binned it like most useless memos.

I shredded mine and then put it in the composting bin

[kevin]

Originally Posted by chator

Plus, i don't think J.J. is interested in character development or continuity issues with the original TOS Kirk, that's why he developed his own universe.

Actually, Paramount - you know, the bill payers - let him do it that way when he and the writers proposed it.

Don't forget to blame the people who approved it as well as Abrams.

[Commodore]

There's actually a bit of a contradiction about Kirk Prime, when you think about it. Very early on in the series, there really wasn't any difference between Kirk and Pike--both were very serious, no-nonsense types with occasional bits of both brooding and flashes of anger. At some point later, however, Kirk lightened up and became more of romantic/swashbuckler figure with an eye for the ladies. Kirk's more notorious exploits didn't really manifest until a year or two into the Enterprise's 5-year mission (assuming it started before the actual series).

Some fans have pointed out that TWOK actually represents a contradiction about Kirk at the Academy. As originally written in TOS, Kirk was a total straight-arrow, a grim, by-the-book, toe-the-line overachiever who was once described as "a stack of book with legs". Some say that Kirk wouldn't have cheated on the Kobayashi Maru test--but because the producers wanted to depict Kirk in TWOK as someone who was a rule-breaker from the start, well...

NuKirk may represent a Kirk who was a bad boy at the Academy better than Kirk Prime really does.

[kevin]

Yeah, I think I was having a discussion with Horatio about Kirk a week or so ago, and I had mentioned that in one sense, if you look back at Kirk Prime the supposed bookworm really isn't in great evidence from that start of TOS onwards.

There are a few small dialogue references in the early season 1 shows and then that kind of got lost amongst his later exploits and personality traits. To me, that early bookworm is actually the inconsistency that was later retconned in stories and background such as the KM in TWOK.

To be honest, based on the bulk of TOS and beyond Kirk, the way he was written and how Pine acted in the new film feels more like how he would have been in some ways and has greater consistency.

I guess I'm not the only one to think that.

[Commodore]

I think a lot of it had to do that Kirk and Pike were originally written the same way at first (and with probably similar origins perhaps), but then they started writing Kirk differently at some point after the first several episodes. Can't help but think that it could have been an natural evolution of the original Pike character in that regard...

[Dominus of Megadeus]

Originally Posted by horatio

I wouldn't consider spreading Tellarite syphillis throughout half the quadrant as very mature, I wouldn't consider giving a sh*t about all the security officers under your command as very no-nonsense.

Didn't he use the alias "Ron Romulus"?

[Dominus of Megadeus]

About Kirk originally being written as more straight-laced, I think Captain Picard was what Mr. Roddenberry really wanted Captain Kirk to be like, but Desilu and Paramount wanted more of an Aaroll Flynn (sp)/John Wayne kind of character...At least I remember reading that somewhere. I could be wrong.

[Samuel]

Obviously not a good choice for TV. Picard had to start lightening up pretty quick also.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Commodore

I think a lot of it had to do that Kirk and Pike were originally written the same way at first (and with probably similar origins perhaps), but then they started writing Kirk differently at some point after the first several episodes. Can't help but think that it could have been an natural evolution of the original Pike character in that regard...

I guess it's as potential a theory as anything else.

Obviously we have to kinda go with the change in Kirk from bookworm to adventurer since that's kinda what TOS informs us happened.

But, these days at times, I find it less likely that's how he was. Especially the whole cheating thing, which as you say, really doesn't at all fit with the image created back at the start.

Originally Posted by Dominus of Megadeus

About Kirk originally being written as more straight-laced, I think Captain Picard was what Mr. Roddenberry really wanted Captain Kirk to be like, but Desilu and Paramount wanted more of an Aaroll Flynn (sp)/John Wayne kind of character...At least I remember reading that somewhere. I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by Samuel

Obviously not a good choice for TV. Picard had to start lightening up pretty quick also.

Exactly, the characters have to have some spark of life in them for the audience to engage with or they can just come across as distant. I know that's kinda how Picard described to Riker he wanted to be, but that doesn't translate well episode after episode.

No wonder Stewart asked for him to eventually be 'sexed up' a bit!

[Dominus of Megadeus]

I didn't know Patrick Stewart asked for Picard's character to be spiced up! I learn something new everyday on this forum.