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  #541  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:02 PM
Odysseus1978 Odysseus1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
To be fair, classical music was considered popular music during it's day. While there will always be that kind of music around well into the 23rd-Century and beyond, it's also totally feasible that some popular music from our era will survive as well...

It's Sabotage!
Yeah, but The Beastie Boys? Come on!

The Beatles, Dylan, Elvis maybe. Not The Beastie Boys.
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  #542  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:07 PM
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Yes, the Beastie Boys!

Check it!
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  #543  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:25 PM
thanis thanis is offline
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In a way, you can't state the new movie is non-canon. Nothing in the movie failed to meet the requirements of:

Paradox allowed timetravel per Star Trek canon (very clear as several TOS episodes established this. In addition TNG, VOY, and ENT clearly re-stated).

-or-

Dimensional travel intersecting along non-perpendicular timelines. I have to admit, while dimensional travel is clearly stated in TOS and DS9, I think this migt be the first time, on-screen, you have seen a time travel element added. However, those temporal coldwar / temporal prime directive / temporal agent episodes (TNG, VOY, and ENT) made a passing reference (when different timeline causations (each a new potential universe) would talk to each other for example).

So the new movie's plot, so far, is Star Trek canon.

Note: Unless you want to get down to umiforms, mission patches, model design, sound effects, etc. But if you get that detailed, I believe the first three episodes of TOS fail canon. In addition, the never reasonably explained laughing Spock is hard to make canon.

Last edited by thanis : 05-11-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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  #544  
Old 05-11-2009, 10:46 PM
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StarTrekXIfan StarTrekXIfan is offline
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
It really needed a moment of maturity...a moment of realization to pound that home that he coul be something more. I think a scene with Nero, a dialogue could have brought that about.

whilst I agree with you that it could have been more explicitly articulated, the scene that comes closest to it for me is when he is transported back on board the enterprise with Scottie and deliberately enrages Spock so that he would step down from command, so Kirk could take over. The guy had just been whipped about by Spock and nearly strangled to death but as soon as Spock realises what he's done and leaves Kirk immediately assumes command; I think that showed a lot of character, and I was very impressed with Kirk in that moment of the film.
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  #545  
Old 05-12-2009, 12:33 AM
DammitAllToHellJim DammitAllToHellJim is offline
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I LOVED it and being a trekkie from way back in the early 70's both my dad and I were really impressed with this movie. The destruction of Vulcan and the death of Spock's Mother concerned us at first because what we both really love about all the movies and series is the consistency of history and events through all of them. However, like you say, bold move and while they continue to make Star Trek, I will continue to watch it and respect the vision of the great Gene Roddenberry when he created Trek for the uniting of humanity and the betterment of mankind.
So excited to see this movie and can't wait for sequels or series to follow.
Your reviews are spot on!!
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  #546  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:51 AM
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Not to mention the appearance of Spock's mother in the original series (though think you've mentioned that when you listed the episodes) So as you say those episodes DIDN'T HAPPEN! Not to mention the STNG episodes where Vulcan appears or is mentioned in any of these episodes.

JJ Abbrams did one thing he did a Bobby Ewing! LOL! If you understand me. And what of the 'old spock' who is now trapped in the past does he still have any bearing on the new time line?

Just clarify something for me folks when young kirk met old spock, old Spock told him his Father lived to see him graduate to Star Fleet academy? I take with the Romulans coming from the future and encountering Kirk's Father's vessal changed all that
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  #547  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Odysseus1978 View Post
Well, first let me say how much I enjoyed this film. One of the quickest, most exhilirating cinema experiences of my life. The audience I was a part of spontaneously applauded and I've only ever been present at such an event once before (though my memory fails me on what film that was). I'm gonna start off with a few negatives (mainly from a subjective perspective to be fair) before the far stronger positives.

Negatives:

- The fact that we are currently sit on the edge of an alternate reality, whilst admittedly exciting, is (to me) a touch disappointing. Having invested so much into what is an entire universe of its own, I feel a little cheated that the future of Trek (well the foreseeable one anyway) will play out 'elsewhere' (almost in an inversion of the various alternate-universe episodes explored in TOS, DS9 and Enterprise)...however, I understand why they did it, and I am certainly looking forward to seeing what happens.

- Following on from that, I did find the destruction of nearly every Vulcan and the planet a little excessive.

- The background aliens were just NOT Star Trek aliens. None of them looked like something we'd ever imagine seeing in Ten Forward or Quark's. It would have been nice to see a Bolian or whatever species Morn was, but getting one of the 'Greys' from the X Files on the Enterprise was a bit annoying.

- I really didn't need the Spock/Uhura romance.

- The Beastie Boys/Nokia travesty. Now the music did sound pretty cool, but if that's what they're listening to in 250 years then the future is culturally bankrupt. It's like us listening to a remarkably obscure Baroque composer.

- Kirk-as-obnoxious-fratboy. Thankfully this dissipated after about an hour and I actually wanted him to avoid a beating!

- Zachary Quinto...now I got to the end of the film thinking that he was pretty bland in the role. I had an even greater respect for Leonard Nimoy's flawless effort as Spock over the years. However, since leaving the cinema, I have slowly come to regard his performance in a far more positive light. I can't quite put my finger on why, needless to say I plan to re-watch the movie and see which opinion was the more accurate.

Anyway, onto the...

Positives:

- Karl Urban is superb as McCoy. Pitch perfect performance, so like DeForrest Kelly and yet not an impersonation at all.

- Pine gets better. The way he plays the Kobayashi-Maru scene is delightful. He is the essence of Shatner pushed so close to the ridiculous - yet just maintaining integrity - that we see an ironic future of the Enterprise crew in a short scene.

- The action sequences. Choreographed to perfection. Believable yet not so intense as to make your head hurt (the trailer to Terminator Whateverit'scalled gave me a far bigger migraine).

- The use of sound. Particularly the silence that greets the vacuum of space. Astonishing.

- The use of music/the Starfleet logo/STAR TREK as the link between the prologue and the main body of the film was just so thrilling. Very minor detail but still brilliant.

- Uhura is HOOOTTTTT

- Scotty's little alien buddy. Comedy Gold with no words and an expressionless face.

- Scotty and Chekov were funny. They just need to avoid them becoming nothing more than comic fodder in the coming films.

- The original theme music at the end, perfectly in tact. Beautifully judged.

- And the best moment in the film...Spock telling Kirk to get out of the Captain's Chair. Priceless, and timed to perfection.

All in all, it was about as good as it could have been. Beats the living hell out of the Star Wars prequels...hell it beats any of the pompous, Ewok infested originals as well.

Good work Mr Abrams
Intresting that you compare this star wars. Others have to but not toward the positive. Fascinating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarTrekXIfan View Post
whilst I agree with you that it could have been more explicitly articulated, the scene that comes closest to it for me is when he is transported back on board the enterprise with Scottie and deliberately enrages Spock so that he would step down from command, so Kirk could take over. The guy had just been whipped about by Spock and nearly strangled to death but as soon as Spock realises what he's done and leaves Kirk immediately assumes command; I think that showed a lot of character, and I was very impressed with Kirk in that moment of the film.
All in all I'm really if JJ Abrams really helped to write the script. This doesn't seem on the LOST level of writing.
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  #548  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:08 AM
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That Metal Beastie That Metal Beastie is offline
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Intresting that you compare this star wars. Others have to but not toward the positive. Fascinating.



All in all I'm really if JJ Abrams really helped to write the script. This doesn't seem on the LOST level of writing.
My thoughts exactly! I'd hoped for that level of complex storytelling what with time paradoxes and all but I guess that would have been too much for too many people. One of the very few disappointments I had with the film.

As to the Star Wars comparison the new movie reminded me more of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
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  #549  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:09 AM
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On a random backtrack here, referring to the previous page's discussions...

I'm pretty sure Nero intended to avert the disaster threatening Romulus. He talked about destroying the Federation to make the Empire strong and independent again - a pretty short-sighted goal if he didn't plan to secure Romulus' future as well. But he's no altruist, so his first priority was to blow stuff up. Even though he could save Romulus by changing the future, he and his crew still lost their homes and families forever. They saw first-hand a Romulus that was utterly dependent on the Federation for help, and utterly let down by those who'd promised to save them. That's gonna hit anyone hard, especially a blue-collar Romulan.
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  #550  
Old 05-12-2009, 04:35 AM
Odysseus1978 Odysseus1978 is offline
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Originally Posted by That Metal Beastie View Post

As to the Star Wars comparison the new movie reminded me more of Raiders of the Lost Ark.
I originally mentioned Star Wars in terms of comparing prequels. However, thinking about it, I realised that I enjoyed the film much more than any Star Wars film anyway, which I always found a bit dull. Star Trek has always been more intelligent, more human and more fun.
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