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  #221  
Old 05-09-2009, 12:47 AM
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I saw it tonight and I must say it was overwhelming. It's sensory overload with this one and I loved it for that. It hits you like a ton of bricks and very viscerally. I wasn't expecting that. I mean, I knew it'd be entertaining and quite something to see, but it had more than that, it had WOW. It was big! Strange new worlds, they were there, even though we'd seen them all before and that's why I think it worked. It took so much on mythos and Trek lore and showed it in a new light and not just with the alternate reality aspect. The film created a world that seemed completely new, while still being very much Star Trek and it immersed you in that world. It overwhelmed the senses, at least it did mine and that's rare with a movie.

The characters were spot on, they felt like Kirk, Bones, Spock, Uhura, Sulu and Chekov. Kirk during the Kobyashi Maru sequence, fantastic. The touch of having him eat the apple during the test was a great homage to TWOK. I half expected him to say, "I don't like to lose.", though perhaps it was a little overboard on the comedy, but it still worked for me. Chekov I didn't mind, I thought I would, but I liked him, he seemed like a Russian wiz-kid, not some actor trying to be the quirky one. Bones was, as many have said already, very much Bones, Urbane was great in the part! Quinto nailed Spock, I just wish there was a little more of the Spock/Kirk dynamic going on, but of course that wouldn't be possible until later in the film anyway. My only gripes with the characters are that they didn't give Uhura much to do. Well, maybe next time! Pegg was great as Scotty. I heard Paul McGillion auditioned and I'm a big Stargate Atlantis fan but I think Pegg is better, he had it, but as with Uhura, I just wish he had more to do, so maybe next time!

Bana, was fantastic as Nero, he really went where he had to go but the script I don't think did and that was the major detractor for me. Nero wasn't flushed out enough in my view. It was obvious why he was doing what he was doing plot-wise, but I didn't feel it. I didn't feel his loss or his conviction, just a whole hell of alot venom. To me that's why I'd place this one right below Khan. Voyage Home was my second favorite, but I think this one's surpassed it. It's almost TWOK, but it's Nero that doesn't put it on that level. He just doesn't make you feel where he's coming from. Khan did and there are many similarities there. Khan and Nero's motivation are very similar is what I mean, but Nero comes off as a shadow comparatively so. If he had more meat this could be the best Star Trek movie but TWOK still holds that title for me anyway.

Lastly, the score and the sound design were amazing. The score was simple, thematic and really served the story well. It really made so much of the film and as for the sound design, well I mentioned at the top something about sensory overload. The sound design had a lot to do with that. Images and sound. Abrams really knows how to make the two work well together. It was a scifi/space/action blockbuster like so many, but he certainly made it his own.

I have to see it again to make a more coherent review. It's the sensory overload thing! I'm overloaded after seeing that movie!
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  #222  
Old 05-09-2009, 01:10 AM
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IThe second thing is Kirk's light speed promotion to 1st Officer. From brand new cadet to 1st Officer/Captain in three years. That's way too fast. The *only* way I could visualize that ever happening is if somehow Spock Prime (which this forum is the first time I've heard him called that) told Captain Pike who he was and that Kirk needed to be in that position. Other than that, I'm at a loss.
It's how they used to do things in the Old British Navy, IIRC. "Back in the day," rank and position was sometimes awarded based on merit during a cadet's performance as a midshipman (serving as "acting officers" aboard fleet ships as part of their training). Most graduated as ensigns or lieutenants, but some truly outstanding midshipmen were sometimes awarded higher postions--in some rare cases, even a captaincy--based on the discretion of their commanding officer or the admiralty.
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Old 05-09-2009, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
Again....did you not watch the movie? At the end of the movie, Kirk is Captain of the Enterprise (CHECK), Spock is First Officer on the Enterprise (CHECK), Scotty is Chief Engineer on the Enterprise (CHECK), Uhura is Communications Officer of the Enterprise (CHECK). Pike is in command of the local Fleet (CHECK), Sulu is the Helmsman of the Enterprise (CHECK), Chekov is the whatever the heck he does that's not Helmsman of the Enterprise (CHECK).

What was missed in the bringing it together?
VULCAN!!!

Hey, lets kill 6 billion people but hey, since they saved earth its a happy ending... NOT

This was a horrible story. In every Episode or movie, the star trek characters save the day. Even in Generations a few million inhabitants of some unknown planet were saved because of Picard's travels through the Nexus.

The Destruction of Vulcan is an atrocity. It is an affront to everything Star Trek has stood for. All the good and exciting things in the movie can not balance out this utterly heart breaking development, and its about enough to stop me from being a fan.
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  #224  
Old 05-09-2009, 03:25 AM
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Part 1

Hmmm, where do I start?

I left the cinema yesterday afternoon not knowing whether or not I liked or truly despised this movie. However, my main feeling as I walked out was that it simply didn’t feel like Star Trek, and that worried my greatly. I’ve been a fan for over 30 years, since early childhood, and to not have the feeling for the first time ever was very disappointing. However, I’ll deal with that at the end of my review.
I think the best way to summarise my feelings about the picture would be to list the good and the bad:-
THE GOOD
- The special effects were stunning, particularly the opening battle. There can be no question about that.

- I warmed quite quickly to the exterior of the new Enterprise – at least when shown at a distance anyhow.

- I liked some little touches in the movie, such as how the Kelvin’s communicators looked like the old TOS ones, Scotty’s tribble (complete with the correct trilling), Kirk’s apple and Majel’s voice on the ship computer.

- As a general action movie there was enough in it to keep the pace chugging along throughout without moments of boredom.

- The main Starfleet uniforms were great. AT a distance they looking just like TOS uniforms. I also got a kick out of the similarities between Pike’s admiral’s uniform and Kirk’s TMP version.

- I liked the Nero character, even if he got little to do. I would have liked to see more of him and learn more.

- I liked the fact that Nero’s ship interior was relatively consistent with the look of the Scimitar from Nemesis. It made me believe that the ship originated from the same sort of grudgey, lower class mining background that Shinzon did, thus I could accept that Nero was from the post-Nemesis era.

- Nimoy!! What can you say. I was overjoyed to see him on screen again. Some people posting reviews have suggested that he was out of character in his scenes. I disagree. In fact I felt that this was the closest we had seen to the Spock I remember since Star Trek V. Nimoy seemed to go through a phase of having Spock be extremely grumpy in TUC and Unification and it was refreshing to see a return to the character I properly remember from the golden days of Trek. Hats off to Leonard to still pull it off. He easily acts Quinto off the screen, but then I feel a bit sorry for Quinto having to play alongside the original, unlike his cast mates, especially Leonard as of all the characters I’d say that Spock is probably the one most unique to the original actor. Nimoy just has something about him, and almost alien quality that inhabits the character that, quite simply, only he can do.

- A great score. Top notch, although I would have like to hear the fanfare earlier on, but I understand why it came at the end.

- Khan style eels! Great stuff.

- Not exactly part of “the good” per se, but a lot of people moaned about Spock & Uhura’s lovebird act. Have to say I had no problem with it keeping in mind that these are alternate versions of the characters. In fact that only thing I was curious about was how it came to be as otherwise there wasn’t much point it in being present.
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Old 05-09-2009, 03:26 AM
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Part 2

THE BAD

- Recasting. Now, I promised myself well in advance that I had gotten past the recasting of iconic roles, helped in part by Nimoy’s endorsement and, more importantly, the alternate universe which allowed me to treat them as different characters. But despite the throw away line about alternate realities it was clear to me that the movie was trying to remind me on a regular basis that I was supposed to be watching Kirk Spock and McCoy and I was supposed to accept the youngsters, many of whom are younger than me (not that I should let that prejudice me), were the same iconic characters that I had grown up with over 30 years. For me, I just couldn’t do it. Maybe I am like Kirk in TUC, I’m struggling to get past my prejudices and move on, but for me the original characters are more than a few episodes and movies, they have been friends to go to when times were bad. Friends who allowed me some escapism. Friends who taught me about morality and difficult questions in life. The people that brought those characters to like are those characters. A character is more than what is written on a script page, it is also part of the living breathing person that plays him or her. For instance, Karl Urban did indeed give one of the best performances in the movie. But I just couldn’t believe it was McCoy, all I could believe was that it was a young Starfleet officer doing an impression of McCoy.The same for the others, all good actors, especially the wonderful Simon Pegg, but I just couldn’t help wanting to see my beloved personalities of old. I think it will take me a long time to get beyond that, if I ever do.

- The set designs. The Kelvin was ok and I could believe it was pre-TOS. However, I despised other sets, most significantly the Enterprise interiors. Abrams has spoken about his desire to do what Dick Donner did on Superman: The Movie, have the believability factor to what was on screen. Versimilitude Donner called it. Well here Abrams makes a fatal mistake. We aren’t just talking about a superhero in a costume, with everything else looking like 20th Century Earth, we are talking about how society will look over 200 years from now. In that respect I cannot accept that the Enterprise needs manual handles to go to warp and an absurd looking engine room that looks like the lower decks of a World War II submarine. Aside from a few trendy touchscreens thrown in, everything else on the Enterprise looked years behind the TOS version, and even looked less advanced than the NX-01, which was are to believe still existed as we know it in this reality. Not convinced in the slightest and Abrams better think carefully about this one for the sequel. It’s absurd that will such a budget that couldn’t create something truly futuristic looking, especially since they had gone to all that trouble of making the exterior of the ship more advanced than its sixties counterpart.

- Plot explanations. I thanked god I had read Countdown because without that the plot of the movie seemed very silly. A Romulan comes after Spock because his homeworld was blown up and he somehow blames Spock for not sorting it out in time, all of which we find out in a couple minutes. Great. That’s it? So basically we are to empathise with Nero and understand his plight? Do me a favour. I couldn’t feel for him after such a small and thrown away explanation and saw the character as nothing more than Bana playing a crazy. I would have loved to have seen more. With that the soul was totally ripped out of the movie for me and Nero was just another bad guy of the week. Ironically the one thing I didn’t have much of a problem with was Nimoy being on Delta Vega at the right moment. With the other plot holes, this coincidence didn’t really matter to me.

- Lens flares and shakey cam. I had read complaints about this but went into the movie open minded. I had no problem with it during the Kelvin scenes, but by the time the movie was half way through it began to annoy me. I’m a greater hater of shakey cam out of the two, and I am terribly frustrated that Hollywood directors think that the audience want to see these tired camera tricks all the time. This moviegoer doesn’t and I’m tired of seeing this in every action film I see these days. One of the redeeming features of Indy 4 was that Spielberg shot the movie old style, without shakey cam, and so despite its flaws I find Crystal Skull a lot easier to watch than movies like Iron Man. I like to see what is happening, not get a headache. But then I guess Abrams was just trying to be one of the cool kids.

- Kids in charge of the Enterprise. Talked about many times so I won’t go into detail, but from cadet to Captain? And for that matter the whole crew (sans Spock & Scotty) from cadets to senior officers? Utterly, utterly stupid.

- Ben Cross as Sarek. Bloody awful. I wish Mark Lenard was still around.

- Product placement. No, no, no, no. No room for that in Star Trek JJ. What a cheap shot.

CONCLUSION

Despite the recasting and the items under my “bad” list, none of what I mentioned above was enough to make me hate the movie. I could stomach them and suspend disbelief to allow me to watch the movie as “just another movie” and take enjoyment out of it and be entertained. In that respect is was a rip-roaring space action adventure and I would recommend it to any non-fan who likes action films. I can understand why it has gotten rave reviews from non-fans and newer fans alike. It will generate a good return, new fans and a sequel. Paramount have gotten what they wanted.

However, here lies the real problem I have with the movie, which is a serious complaint directed at the new “supreme court”. Abrams and his cohorts, including Nimoy himself, tell us Star Trek is about the characters. A lot of fans have bought into this when seeing the new movie and think that if there is a good arc for Kirk & Spock then that’s all that’s need. I respectfully disagree with this on every level. Star Trek was never about the characters, it was about the human experience, as told through the characters. This is the fundamental mistake with movie. It’s something that people like Ron Moore and, dare I say it, Berman understood about what Roddenberry was trying to do, but Abrams seems clueless in this regard. There was no exploration of humanity in this movie and no hint of a morality play. For this fan, that’s just not good enough. I was never a fan of Star Trek because I liked to see ship battles or fancy devices. It was about, for me, the social issues it made me think about. It was the thing about Star Trek that set it apart from things like Star Wars. It had greater depth, more intelligence and more morality than the other things out there. Majel is alleged to have said that Gene would have approved of the new movie, while I hope that he would have I feel that this is doubtful. If you go way back to “The Cage” it is clear what Gene wanted from the show. He wanted to make the audience think. Abrams Trek does not do that. For that reason I felt incredibly let down when I left the cinema. It felt like my intelligent Star Trek had died years earlier and had been replaced by yet another big budget Hollywood action movie for the crowds of lower intelligence out there that has simply had the Star Trek name slapped on it. Well, that’s what sells these days so I understand it. But I am just deeply upset that the market has turned this way and ripped the heart, or more importantly, the brain, out of my beloved Star Trek.

You see without the intelligence Star Trek is just like everything else....and nothing else has lasted this long as a result. I don’t see why people can’t see that. This movie will generate a couple sequels of big action. Paramount will make short term money on its reboot. But it will die out much sooner than the original did, because this nuTrek is far more a product of its time than TOS ever was and simply doesn’t have elements to withstand changes attitudes over the years.

Abrams has a chance to recapture this old fan with the inevitable sequel. He just needs to explore the human experience again – and there is no reason why this cannot go hand in hand with a big budget action film. I implore him to do it as then he really will have done justice to the Roddenberry legacy.

5/10
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  #226  
Old 05-09-2009, 03:35 AM
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I really loved the new movie. I even loved it when they blew up Vulcan. because until the very last moment, I was convinced they would set the timeline right. But apparently, JJ Abrams thinks vulcanocide is the way to go.

Are they kidding me? Isn't Vulcan's cooperation central to the development of Earth?

Seriously, I don't really mind the Spock smooching part (although: weird!), or Kirk growing up in Iowa. But an alternate timeline without Vulcan? No Tuvok on Voyager? No annoying Vulcan ambassadors to be hosted? Not to mention that the development of technology will become significantly different without Vulcan.

I don't care if JJ Abrams thinks Star Trek fans are a bunch of geeks who live of frozen pizza and never see the sun - he still could have a modicum of respect for the story of Star Trek.
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  #227  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:10 AM
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Love the way the phasers central red and blue core spins 180 degrees for either stun or kill.
And I loved it that Kirk set the phaser to stun before shooting the Romulan!
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  #228  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:46 AM
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And here I thought the toy phaser was just "kiddified" with those spinning blue and red nozzles. Had no idea how accurate it was to the ones that appeared in the movie.
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  #229  
Old 05-09-2009, 04:53 AM
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And here I thought the toy phaser was just "kiddified" with those spinning blue and red nozzles. Had no idea how accurate it was to the ones that appeared in the movie.
I wouldn't mind speculating that is was designed with toy sales in mind. An old studio trick with blackbuster movies once they sign away the toy licenses. What's sad is that if true, its the first time that Trek has designed stuff with this in mind. It's a shame.

Personally I liked the new phasers until I saw the blue and red elements, that turned me off.
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  #230  
Old 05-09-2009, 05:05 AM
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I understand the premise of the movie, whether explained nicely or not. The fact remains that in just about every SF timeline movie, the original timeline is restored with only minor changes (well, maybe not Back to the Future, but did you really want to see McFly working for Biff) at most.
(A)And that's the point Timster. BttF's time traveling logic is flawed in the world of actual physics and it's view point of time travel. Be it BttF, TimeCop, or any other time traveling tale...Well, let me put it as my professor did.

Your classmate hates that you beat him in everything. Sports...Academics...Women: You're always second fiddle to him. Little does he know, you've invented a time ship. You go back and time and find his father years before you were born. You take out your gat (gun), and you smoke 'em. BANG! Kinda severe, but your nemesis' dad is gone, so you happily go back to your time ship expecting to your friend to have disappeared and that you are now the Big Kahuna. To your surprise, you find that your "friend" is still there, but he's announced that he's engaged to Miss America! In your time line, nothings changed! What you did is just create an alternate time line. So, if Star Trek is supposed to be "above the normal sci-fi...more cerebral/less "actiony", wouldn't it be prudent for the writers to listen to the scientific consultants they hired (and they DID hire scientific consultants to get things right--from physics in space to the way things look) so this was still above the riff-raff of sci-fi fare? For me, a lover of science--specifically physics--they nailed it. "Spock Prime" didn't fade away. Vulcan of TOS still exists. Kirk (killed off in "Generations") is still dead--and would be dead at the time of TNG anyway naturally (without that awful Nexus business). And all of their adventures still remain. There tales, or "canon", if you prefer, is still in tact.

Quote:
Nero changed the past when he destroyed the Kelvin and, yes, the TOS crew that is on the Enterprise doesn't know anything about the "old" time line, since from their perspective it is just not destined to happen. The premise of the movie is logical and it explains many deviations from established Star Trek lore: how Kirk served aboard the Farragut under Captain Garovick, not the Enterprise under Pike, etc. I get it.
B. The moment Nero appeared and engaged the Kelvin, he created an alternate time line. As mentioned in point A, the "original" time line still is in tact.

C. Now here's a brain warp. What if YOU are the creation of an alternate time line? What if in another universe you were never meant to live? Well in fact, if quantum physics theory is correct, there are numerous "multi verses" and in one multi verse YOU died in childbirth! In another, you're a CEO of a massive conglomerate. Yet in another, you may be a beloved author, or philosopher. Even more, you may be a megalomaniac combating a real "James Bond" trying to foil your plans of world domination. In fact, right this very moment (according to some quantum physicists), you're probably deciding whether to respond to this post or not. If you chose to respond, you've created ANOTHER universe DIFFERENT from the one where you simply read the post and moved on. I actually think when I avoid a careless & wreck-less driver that at that moment another universe is born. Maybe I DID get hit and die and my consciousness flips over--across what scientists call "the membrane"--to the nearest universe where I avoided the accident. I don't like that thought, but perhaps...As Mr. Spock says, "There are always possibilities."

D. It's a movie. It's entertainment. Star Trek always seems to have folks proclaiming it to be "War and Peace", "Saving Private Ryan", or "The Remains of the Day." Andorians? The Gorn? Star Trek always had and will have a rock-em, sock-em element to it. When kids played Star Trek, it always had an element of "cowboys and Indians" to it...at least it did in my neighborhood. This film brings back the wonder and excitement that many remember from their childhood while deftly mixing in scientific fact and fiction together, layering it upon a very well written script and superbly acted cast as a foundation. I walked away saying, "I wish I had read those comics, but what a treat and what a way to re-introduce these characters to the world. 'Thrusters on full': The ship is ready to forge ahead into new frontiers and new adventures!"
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