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  #21  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
Very good post. We, as fans, have to rally behind this film regardless of what we think of it. This is a chance for us to make a difference and make sure that Star Trek lives on.
Here's my heresy for the day: if Star Trek can't live without the fans and is no longer being made for the fans, then logic dictates that Star Trek should not live.
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  #22  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:29 AM
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I know a certain Leonard Nimoy interview that The Saint needs to read.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/04/excl...leonard-nimoy/

By the way Saint, an emotional plea followed by an attempt at logic is...well...illogical.

Last edited by RedShirtsRuS : 05-05-2009 at 02:34 AM.
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  #23  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
I know a certain Leonard Nimoy interview that The Saint needs to read.

http://trekmovie.com/2009/05/04/excl...leonard-nimoy/
Remind me, did an appeal to authority fallacy work on me the last time it was tried?

Quote:
By the way Saint, an emotional plea followed by an attempt at logic is...well...illogical.
I think you know far less about formal logic than you think you do. I'm speaking here of real logic, not the Mr. Spock variety, which is usually so illogical it's hilarious.
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  #24  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:48 AM
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relax.... the movie will open big,and we are gonna have a party...
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Remind me, did an appeal to authority fallacy work on me the last time it was tried?
And "the fans" isn't an appeal to authority then?

If I'm not mistaken you think "the fans" should be the end all, be all authority for Star Trek.

At least Leonard Nimoy has seen the movie and he knows pretty much everybody that worked on it which means he is in a FAR better position to judge it than you. It's not an appeal to authority fallacy if the authority genuinely has more information about the movie than you do.

If you saw the movie and you didn't like it, and I used the Leonard Nimoy thing on you, then you might have a case against me for appealing to authority.

Nice try though.
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  #26  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:55 AM
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I think if the movie is good, it will fly. If it isn't, It will do badly. No matter how many times "trekkies" go see it, won't make or break it. I remember when Star Trek V came out, someone on one of the morning shows or the Monday after the movie opened was surprised it was in the number 1 spot for the weekend. The other guy said, Star Trek always leads in it's opening, because those fans go over and over. Anyway, if Trek XI is going to be a Blockbuster, It will BE a blockbuster. Does that make sense? The hardcore fans won't do it without the mainstream audience.
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  #27  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
And "the fans" isn't an appeal to authority then?
Nope. Know why? Because 'the fans' are not an authority. You may be thinking of an 'appeal to popularity' fallacy. Then again, I think your knowledge of formal logic, or lack thereof, is showing itself.

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If I'm not mistaken you think "the fans" should be the end all, be all authority for Star Trek.
From the perspective of the bottom line, yes, the fans are going to be one or the other. We vote with our wallets. So yes, we'd better 'be all' to the studio or the lack of return on their investment will 'end all' where this franchise is concerned.

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At least Leonard Nimoy has seen the movie and he knows pretty much everybody that worked on it which means he is in a FAR better position to judge it than you.
That still doesn't make his motive for saying what he says pure; nor does it guarantee he's saying what you think he's saying; even granted the first two factors, it doesn't mean he's infallibly correct in his assertions. That's why appeals to authority are a logical fallacy.

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It's not an appeal to authority fallacy if the authority genuinely has more information about the movie than you do.
It's an appeal to authority fallacy unless the authority and the one appealing to that authority are both infallible. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.

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If you saw the movie and you didn't like it, and I used the Leonard Nimoy thing on you, then you might have a case against me for appealing to authority.
I do anyway, for reasons just laid out.

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Nice try though.
Being patronizing is usually far more effective and satisfying when you're actually correct. Give that a try sometime and you'll feel the difference.
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Last edited by The Saint : 05-05-2009 at 03:03 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:01 AM
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No-one "has" to go to the film at all. Those who are determined not to go, certainly shouldn't. They're only going to whine if they do, and they'll snivel twice as hard if they can whine afterward about how they were "forced" to go by all the stoopid people.
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  #29  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post
No-one "has" to go to the film at all. Those who are determined not to go, certainly shouldn't. They're only going to whine if they do, and they'll snivel twice as hard if they can whine afterward about how they were "forced" to go by all the stoopid people.
Actually, I'd tolerate it more if they actually did see the movie and they didn't like it.

This willful ignorance about not going to see the movie is near intolerable for me.

It's the same thing as some immature kid sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and going "LALALALLALAALALALLAA!"
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  #30  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:10 AM
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One last note on appeals to authority, fallacious and otherwise: There are in fact subjects on which appeals to authority are not fallacies. Subjects such as mathematics and sciences, where conclusions are objective, subject to testing and can be readily and repeatedly verified or falsified.

Subjects like art, entertainment and humor don't fall within those fields -- they're subjective. Everyone has a different take and no one is an infallible authority. That's why appealing to Leonard Nimoy as an 'authority' on whether or not this film is 'good' is fallacious: whether or not a film is good is a purely subjective conclusion over which there is no qualified authority, Leonard Nimoy included.
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