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  #11  
Old 02-14-2008, 04:21 PM
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I think introducing the borg was a good move on the writers\producers side but they did overused the borg,every encounter voyager had with them,janeway and crew always came out on top and the borg runaway with their tails between their legs.As for the borg episode,i dont counter that one as ana borg episode.
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2008, 04:29 PM
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Hm, I think Voyager did overuse them a bit. Or rather, they probably should have made them much more of a threat. A lot of people think that Voyager shouldn't have been in such good shape at the start of every episode. They have no backup, no star base, the ship probably should have been on worse shape more often, especially while going anywhere near the Borg.

But I don't think it was Voyager that really ruined the idea of the Borg. The introduction of the Queen in First Contact kind of contradicted the original idea of the collective. She was interesting, but it completely changed what the Borg represented.

Anyway, I don't think Voyager should have used the Borg less. They're from the Delta Quadrant, it made sense for them to be in it more. But I think they did make them less threatening.

Species 8472 ended up going to waste too. They had so much potential.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2008, 04:39 PM
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Yes they did.

Although TNG damaged them greatly with the "Hugh" and "Lore" episodes.
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2008, 07:32 AM
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I agree that the Borg were a bit overused in Voyager but not to the point of ruining them, at least not for me and not for a couple of TNG authors who wrote Resistance (J.M. Dillard) and Before Dishonor (Peter David). The Borg do not give up so easily.

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Originally Posted by VoyagerFan View Post
I wouldn't say that Voyager ruined t
What I still don't understand is how the borg queen was featured in Voyager. I thought she was destroyed in First Contact? And didn't Janeway kill her off again and then she reappeared in Endgame?!
.
If you read "Resistance", you'll understand why. It may not be canon because it's a book but the author gives a very plausible explanation for this.

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The introduction of the Queen in First Contact kind of contradicted the original idea of the collective. She was interesting, but it completely changed what the Borg represented.
Not if you compare the collective to a hive. You can still have all those minds connected to each other, with a Queen who has her own thoughts while still being able to hear those of her "subjects". Why do you say that having a Queen completely change what the Borg represented?
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Vaako View Post
Not if you compare the collective to a hive. You can still have all those minds connected to each other, with a Queen who has her own thoughts while still being able to hear those of her "subjects". Why do you say that having a Queen completely change what the Borg represented?
Because they weren't introduced as a hive. They were one single entity. I suppose you can look at the Queen as a personification of that entity, but the way she acts and orders the Borg to act is far different from how the Borg were represented in TNG.

I suppose if I think about it enough the introduction of the Queen herself didn't ruin the Borg, but it did heavily change how the Federation (especially Voyager) interacted with them. It would make more sense to me that the Borg Queen was created after meeting the Federation, as a necessity to deal with them. Kind of like what they tried to use Picard for. But as we know, the Queen has been around for longer than that.

In some ways the Queen made the Borg more dangerous, because she made them cunning. But originally that just wasn't how the Borg were, they were relentless, they didn't back off for tactical reasons, it wasn't in their nature.
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  #16  
Old 02-15-2008, 05:35 PM
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Interesting theory but I'm not sure that the Queen was created as a necessity to fight the Federation. Instead, I would think the reason she didn't show up in TNG is simply because she thought the human species would be as easy to assimilate as any other and she couldn't be bothered to deal with them. She probably believed that her drones would do the job for her the way they always had before but when she saw that the Federation was much more resilient than expected, she decided to step in and take control. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.
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  #17  
Old 02-15-2008, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Vaako View Post
Interesting theory but I'm not sure that the Queen was created as a necessity to fight the Federation. Instead, I would think that the reason she didn't show up in TNG is simply because she thought that the human species would be as easy to assimilate as any other and she couldn't be bothered to deal with them. She believed that her drones would do the job for her, the way they always had before but when she saw that the Federation was much more resilient than expected, she decided to step in and take control. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.
No, I think that theory makes sense. But it does conflict with my theory that the Queen is the personification of the collective. If she was, then she wouldn't need to 'step in' because she would already be there. And that's what I mean really, she's much more like an individual being, which wasn't the purpose of the Borg when they were first introduced. I kind of liked the way they were in Best of Both Worlds.

Picard: "We'd rather die than be assimilated."
Collective: "Death is irrelevant."

There's just no comeback to that.

Anyway, you mentioned about a Resistance, which I hadn't heard of. I'm curious now so I think I'll look into it.
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  #18  
Old 02-15-2008, 06:04 PM
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I don't think so. If anything, it shows how the Federation (especially Voyager) grew in knowledge of the Borg and learned how to defeat them...
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  #19  
Old 02-15-2008, 07:38 PM
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Eh, The Queen was a sexy Villain, bottom line.
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  #20  
Old 02-15-2008, 11:26 PM
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Did Voyager ruin the Borg....

It's a common misconception...but actually it was First Contact that turned the borg into the equivilant of the walking dead. Notices the differences between the TNG Borg and the First Contact borg.

In TNG the borg didn't use the injecting nanites vampire like assimilation method.
The Borg didn't scowel. They were clean cybernticly precise and melding of mechanical and biological parts.

In First Contact there were cut off arms and the skin was given a pastey vein like appearence as though they were translucent an corumpted. Not to mention the addition of a queen that did show emotions...which made little sense... Thus the second Borg invasion was rather silly...A single ship and a plot to go back in time...

Once we establish that the borg are stupid and have to come up with half cocked ideas to overwhelm a government that is clearly inferrior the Borg become as directionless and unitelligent as a fire and forget it dart missle.

Voyager didn't competently with the Borg. They didn't pursue that sort of stupidity in plot development.

Scorpion: The borg did a lot better here than in First Contact. They created an alliance.

Unimatrix Zero: This was a bit odd and because we're a bit odd it actually messed up an otherwise good episode. The queen is emotional. Thus when we saw that the Borg in TNG were unwilling to sever Jean Luc from the collective it said that the Borg sense of self was more mechanical and emotional. Yet...in this episode the Queen self destructs several ships. Conflict.

Dark Frontier: Again the Queen problem They keep showing the queen as this mother like figure. When Seven saves a ship of people the queen doesn't destroy it. It's like the mattered somehow but past borg actions reveal that individuals are irrelevant. But again it's the queen so apparentlly she's fickle.

It's not Voyagers fault. Voyager is merely following the bad example set by a bad movie.
Now green lit borg Cubes that explode in green fire are the norm.
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