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  #11  
Old 04-21-2009, 06:39 PM
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First of all, yes we do know which ship and crew was the "original" It was the ship that was blown to bits, the one that survived.
Umm...which one was it? The one blown to bits or the one that survived? How do you know this? What dialogue led you to this conclusion?

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Second, Harry and young Naomi came from the other ship, the one from the different timeline or universe or whatever it's called. When the ships were divided or one moved one or whatever, the ship from the other universe was being boarded by the Vidians, some of the main characters had already been murdered.
Perhaps we should use the word "duplicate" to describe the "other" Voyager. It is nice to think the duplicate was destroyed and the original Voyager survived, albeit with the "duplicate" Harry Kim and Naomi, but the fact is we don't KNOW with certainty which Voyager was which. I think that may have been the point of the episode... it left you wondering.

I think the "duplicate" Voyager was slightly out of phase with the other Voyager and that is how they were able to co-exist in the same "universe", time, and place. If we were talking of an actual different universe or timeline there would NOT have been an issue with the antimatter. Remember, only normal matter was subject to the duplicating anomaly or effect, that is why BOTH Voyagers only had HALF of the normal antimatter supply.
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2009, 01:53 AM
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Either way it was either the ship seen in Caretaker up until Deadlock that was lost and replaced, or it was the Harry Kim that was a duplicate.

But duplicate is obviously not original, so one of the two is 'different' from where we started the show.
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2009, 04:04 AM
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But duplicate is obviously not original, so one of the two is 'different' from where we started the show.
I don't think this is entirely accurate. Wasn't it explained that the matter on the ship was somehow "split"? That was why the antimatter appeared to be split in half. That would make BOTH Voyagers as "original" as the Voyager prior to anomaly.
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:17 AM
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Umm...which one was it? The one blown to bits or the one that survived? How do you know this? What dialogue led you to this conclusion?



Perhaps we should use the word "duplicate" to describe the "other" Voyager. It is nice to think the duplicate was destroyed and the original Voyager survived, albeit with the "duplicate" Harry Kim and Naomi, but the fact is we don't KNOW with certainty which Voyager was which. I think that may have been the point of the episode... it left you wondering.

I think the "duplicate" Voyager was slightly out of phase with the other Voyager and that is how they were able to co-exist in the same "universe", time, and place. If we were talking of an actual different universe or timeline there would NOT have been an issue with the antimatter. Remember, only normal matter was subject to the duplicating anomaly or effect, that is why BOTH Voyagers only had HALF of the normal antimatter supply.
If you look at this synopsis, you will see that it was the ship that was in pieces that was the original ship. I was wrong when I said Alternate or Timeline, Saquist is correct, this was as a result of the explosion that caused the doubled VOY in the first place. The synopsis explains which ship was first: Peace
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ode/68892.html
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:25 AM
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I was wrong to call this two seperate realities, it was one. But I still think it is a good way to see the difference simply because Harry seemed to think he wasn't in quite the right place. It made me think of this new movie, especially the fact that, I read that one of the characters stated they were in a different reality. I guess, like I said in my first post, the Mirror episodes from DS9 would be more like what we are going to experience in this movie, being that anything that happens in the Mirror universe has no effect on the prime universe. Tuvok with Sisko, main characters dropping like flies, Sisko sleeping with Dax. In the ENT episode, In A Mirror Darkly, (which I am watching right now,) one of the writers, I don't remember which said that he had been trying to figure how to bring the tholians and the starship Defiant into the series. Then the idea of a stand alone episode from the mirror universe came to fruition. I love this!
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Old 04-22-2009, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Beetlescott View Post
If you look at this synopsis, you will see that it was the ship that was in pieces that was the original ship. I was wrong when I said Alternate or Timeline, Saquist is correct, this was as a result of the explosion that caused the doubled VOY in the first place. The synopsis explains which ship was first: Peace
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...ode/68892.html
I read that, and that's fine and dandy, but I still question what supports this assumption. I don't recall anything being said in that episode that would indicate which ship was the "original". I think it is obvious that most people watching will assume the original ship survived, but it was never stated beyond a doubt by any dialogue within the episode. Maybe it was explained and I don't remember. I need to rewatch that episode.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:11 PM
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Umm...which one was it? The one blown to bits or the one that survived? How do you know this? What dialogue led you to this conclusion?



Perhaps we should use the word "duplicate" to describe the "other" Voyager. It is nice to think the duplicate was destroyed and the original Voyager survived, albeit with the "duplicate" Harry Kim and Naomi, but the fact is we don't KNOW with certainty which Voyager was which. I think that may have been the point of the episode... it left you wondering.

I think the "duplicate" Voyager was slightly out of phase with the other Voyager and that is how they were able to co-exist in the same "universe", time, and place. If we were talking of an actual different universe or timeline there would NOT have been an issue with the antimatter. Remember, only normal matter was subject to the duplicating anomaly or effect, that is why BOTH Voyagers only had HALF of the normal antimatter supply.
I like that they sort of implied that the duplicate ship survived and the original was the destroy but it's REALLY cool because that was entirely dependent on our perspective.
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:39 PM
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I like that they sort of implied that the duplicate ship survived and the original was the destroy but it's REALLY cool because that was entirely dependent on our perspective.
I think that is what I love about this episode!! They had us believe all the way through that it was the "cleaner" Voyager that was the one. It was one of Voyagers best! IMO
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Old 04-22-2009, 12:53 PM
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I think that is what I love about this episode!! They had us believe all the way through that it was the "cleaner" Voyager that was the one. It was one of Voyagers best! IMO
Another similar episode that was very good was Course:Oblivion. It starts with Tom & B'Lanas wedding, when members of the crew start dying. Very good episode.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:45 PM
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I think that is what I love about this episode!! They had us believe all the way through that it was the "cleaner" Voyager that was the one. It was one of Voyagers best! IMO
You see when it comes to smart episodes Voyager had a few. It was very creative.

Deadlock for me is either the best or near best episode of Voyager.
I'll put it at the top.

1.Deadlock
2.Thaw
3.The Void
4.Relativity
5.The Voyager Conspiracy
6.Parallax


These were very intresting and smart episodes and they are too far few between. Infact Thaw and The Void happened right after each other and that's how I got hooked on Voyager.

DS9 never had any truely mind boggling smart moments. It was entirely about Drama we watched to see what would happen not to engage our minds and that's why DS9 is often refered to as the non Trek or Soap Trek. They should do another one because it was sucessful.
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