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  #21  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtWalking View Post
I said there was a "lack of character development." From the first episode to the last the Voyager characters were the same exact people for all intents in purposes. They didn't grow an iota. Ergo, no character development..
Heck, even Harry didn't receive a promotion!!
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2009, 02:03 PM
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That's true but we've never been able to determine if promotions were her right to give. Battlefield promotions are done simply for replacement.
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Old 04-23-2009, 02:24 PM
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I enjoyed both Voyager and Enterprise, voyager had 3 seasons more to develop it's character making the comparison a bit unfair. But in both shows there were characters that were developed and some that weren't

The Doctor in Voyager had some really good arcs during the run with his friendships slowly growing with the crew, his standing up for holographic rights, the hobbies he developed and falling in love with 7. 7 also developed well, slowly becoming more human but never completely fitting in and losing her edge. Janeway was probably my favourite captain out of the five. It did miss a lot of what it promised in it's pre-publicity, it has some of the worst episodes of any of the series and was guaranteed 7 seasons from the start of it's run so you can't really say that it had high ratings keeping it afloat.

Enterprise had it's shockers too and I'd agree that people like Reed, Sato and Mayweather often vanished for episodes at a time. T'Pol had good character development with her slowly coming to respect humans and becoming a less 'rigid' vulcan. Archer starts off naive and you can see him becoming a seasoned commander and truly the sum of his experiences.

Again the show wasn't perfect and it took a while to find it's feet, but as to whether 1 good season can turn a show around and make it deserve another? I think it can, I still think seasons 3 and 4 were the start of something good, deserving of more.
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  #24  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:24 PM
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That's true but we've never been able to determine if promotions were her right to give. Battlefield promotions are done simply for replacement.
Janeway was the Captain. She didn't know when she would make it back to the Alpha quadrant. She should have taken it upon herself to promote her crew. The argument that there aren't enough positions does NOT hold because there would come a point where rank and position are no longer tied to one another based on how many years are spent away from Starfleet. If Voyager had spent 10 years away before getting home, there should NOT have been a single ensign in the crew, unless he or she had been hit with a loss of rank for disciplinary purposes.
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  #25  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:46 PM
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Voyagers was a recycled plot, meaning unoriginal in concept and execution.
Absolutely. Nothing original or fresh added to the mix.

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The had the technology handed to them.
In other words it was a forgone conclusion they were going to make it home. The only question was were they going to have Fantastic result and take out the Borg or just Good results and return Home with ease.
Which is why it was clear from 'Caretaker' that the ship would always get home. It was simply never in doubt from the very start. It undermined the entire series. Even before the Borg showed up.

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What's amazing is that Voyager survived at all.
With SG-1 and Farscape and eventually Smallville coming on the scene it had some real competition. Yet it survived. Some people, not just trekkies, tuned in. Trek has always found and audience because it was bright, friendly and sort of easy to jump into on one episode, they looked like every day people trying to find their way home. Mediocre yes....but somehow in a pleasant way.
Mediocrity often thrives because it just nicely fits the right number of viewers. Enough to allow season renewals.

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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
That's true but we've never been able to determine if promotions were her right to give. Battlefield promotions are done simply for replacement.
Although, in the first regular episode we see the crew discussing how they are going to fill posts either not filled before the ship left or empty because crew were killed in 'Caretaker'. Plus other crew were killed over the years. We know that field promotions can be made, so it's not outwith the Captain's authority to do so.

Presummably, if she can demote in the field - she can promote.
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  #26  
Old 04-23-2009, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Absolutely. Nothing original or fresh added to the mix.
Sorry I meant Enterprise.



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Which is why it was clear from 'Caretaker' that the ship would always get home. It was simply never in doubt from the very start. It undermined the entire series. Even before the Borg showed up.
It wasn't clear to me. It was the begining. Nothing had been decided.
After the Borg, it was clear the ship would get home.



Quote:
Although, in the first regular episode we see the crew discussing how they are going to fill posts either not filled before the ship left or empty because crew were killed in 'Caretaker'. Plus other crew were killed over the years. We know that field promotions can be made, so it's not outwith the Captain's authority to do so.

Presummably, if she can demote in the field - she can promote.
That's the nature of battlefield promotions they are done as needed not as deserved.

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Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
I enjoyed both Voyager and Enterprise, voyager had 3 seasons more to develop it's character making the comparison a bit unfair. But in both shows there were characters that were developed and some that weren't
Only difference is Voyager didn't lack good actors.
Enterprise ...lacked in every role.

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The Doctor in Voyager had some really good arcs during the run with his friendships slowly growing with the crew, his standing up for holographic rights, the hobbies he developed and falling in love with 7. 7 also developed well, slowly becoming more human but never completely fitting in and losing her edge. Janeway was probably my favourite captain out of the five. It did miss a lot of what it promised in it's pre-publicity, it has some of the worst episodes of any of the series and was guaranteed 7 seasons from the start of it's run so you can't really say that it had high ratings keeping it afloat.
Good grief DS9 had worse episodes but not by much.

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Enterprise had it's shockers too and I'd agree that people like Reed, Sato and Mayweather often vanished for episodes at a time. T'Pol had good character development with her slowly coming to respect humans and becoming a less 'rigid' vulcan. Archer starts off naive and you can see him becoming a seasoned commander and truly the sum of his experiences.
Slowly...you me insta transformation.
They did that when they realized they had made Tpol completely unlikable to viewers as well as all vulcans. Another mistake.

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Again the show wasn't perfect and it took a while to find it's feet, but as to whether 1 good season can turn a show around and make it deserve another? I think it can, I still think seasons 3 and 4 were the start of something good, deserving of more.
Three was not the start of anything good. Four was becoming special. and nostalgic to fans. but too late.
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  #27  
Old 04-24-2009, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Sorry I meant Enterprise.
Well, it kinda still applies.

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It wasn't clear to me. It was the begining. Nothing had been decided.
After the Borg, it was clear the ship would get home.
Honestly? Not even from 'Caretaker'? I would have put money on it.
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  #28  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:12 AM
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It looks like everyone is coming down on Voyager. However I liked voyager but just was left disapointed by their seveth season. The show started its down hill run when seven and chekoty got romantic. I always liked seven as the untouchable girl that out of every ones leage
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