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  #11  
Old 04-22-2009, 06:56 PM
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I believe Enterprise is most worthy of another season.
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  #12  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Beetlescott View Post
I agree on the Ent having the worse ending, it should have been an ENT ending, not a TNG one, the cast feels the same way too. But I completely disagree about the Voyager ending, I think that was the best ending of all the series! I love the way Admiral Janeway came back to help and we got to hear about all the things that would of happened if Captian Janeway had of waited. As far as Ent not deserving a season 5, I think they should have, in fact, ENT had more viewers than TOS did in any of it's seasons. There were still over 2million viewers tuning in to ENT when the axe fell I wasn't one of them. I didn't become a fan until 2 years after Ent went off the air! Maybe if I had of been there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Voyagers was a recycled plot, meaning unoriginal in concept and execution. On a scale of one to ten the difficulty factor of the plot was between 4= I'm getting seasick and 6= I've seen better which makes it average 5.

The had the technology handed to them.
In other words it was a forgone conclusion they were going to make it home. The only question was were they going to have Fantastic result and take out the Borg or just Good results and return Home with ease.

That's NOTHING to watch...
And once again the Borg Queen did nothing.
Voyager had alot of good and great episodes NONE of them have been the Two Parter variety.

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Originally Posted by TNG_Trekman View Post
TOS never had a series finale. It just ended (because of cancellation). Now we have the movies. I guess if you wanted to think of it this way. ST:VI was the series finale for TOS. The ship was decommissioned, the crew was moving on. It was a fitting end to the series.

But at the time TOS ended in '69 you'd think that Gene would of had a heads up that his show was going to end soon. Considering each of the three seasons was on borderline cancellation until the studio had enough and did it for season three.

If things were different. It would of been interesting to see how they might of ended the series on TV in '69. With a proper finale, not just a cut off. Opinions anyone?
Yeah Star Trek VI was definitely the Finale.
I'll definitely agree with that.

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Originally Posted by omegaman View Post
Enterprise all the way. Only series to capture the spirit of the original and get back to the nitty gritty of space travel and what's out there.
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Originally Posted by Raul4510 View Post
I believe Enterprise is most worthy of another season.
Oh Omega. Raul One Good season out of Four doesn't really deserve anything but a pat on the back. The first Season was Blah but not bad. The second Season just plain sucked the Thrid was Awful (Wasn't that the Time War?) And the Fourth tried to scamper out of the grave with episodes reflecting TOS.

Enterprise never found it'self...or maybe it did and very few people didn't like it.
You can't say it did better than TOS. That's not true. The population was smaller and the viewing population even smaller than that as opposed to the world wide networks ENT showed in.

Enterprise had a bad attitude toward Canon for a show that was going to prequel EVERYTHING else. I mean really, this is your franchise keep track of your stats.
On top of that the show was HORRIBLY mediocre. The only ones intrested in it were die hard Trekkies that just need something trek on TV no matter what it was.

What's amazing is that Voyager survived at all.
With SG-1 and Farscape and eventually Smallville coming on the scene it had some real competition. Yet it survived. Some people, not just trekkies, tuned in. Trek has always found and audience because it was bright, friendly and sort of easy to jump into on one episode, they looked like every day people trying to find their way home. Mediocre yes....but somehow in a pleasant way.

ENT was just very hard to get into. Nothing special at all. No characters or actors that jumped out (except for Shran/Combs who frankly should have been the star of the show) It sent from light to dark in no time. I stopped watching for a year and tried to give it another chance and I couldn't get hooked. It was boring. The acting was attrocious, It was kind of false. On one had it looked like trek but wasn't and on the other hand it wasn't distant enough from Trek in look and FX to make it's own niche like a 100 year distant time should be.

It should not have been that familar.
They screwed the pouch.
Four years is enough to figure it out.
It shouldn't have took that long.

ENT is the least deserving not because it didn't finish but because it did the worse job with the time that it had.
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  #13  
Old 04-23-2009, 07:51 AM
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I would have loved for there to have been a fitting ending for TOS. If you read the book Best Destiny, it picks up just after they were ordered to go to be decomissioned. It was one of the recommended books by Orci.
I might just look up that book.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:21 AM
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I have to agree with Enterprise. It was a good series by the end of season 4 and was doing some really good story telling. So...what...they did a two episode homage to TOS? There are 20 other episodes that were pretty good that year.

It started off VERY blah and progressively started finding it's footing. I think by the time it hit season 4, it was working well. That's got a lot to do with Manny running the show during seasons 3 & 4, I think.

Voyager was just AWFUL. The stories...the lack of character development...the constant use of deus ex machina... The last three seasons were "The Doctor & Seven of Nine Show" and it was boring. It had SO MUCH potential, and it was just wasted.

As big of a jerk as he has been, many of Robert Beltran's criticisms of the show are spot on, sadly.
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  #15  
Old 04-23-2009, 08:37 AM
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One more season? That´s easy, TOS or ENT, simply because they were cancelled.

TNG and VOY got mediocre in their last year while DS9 is hard to judge because it was serialized.

Many people dislike the third season of TOS, but IMO it was as good as the others, so a would-have-been fourth seasons might have been interesting.
Concerning ENT, I think there is little disagreement among us Trekkers that the fourth season of ENT was by far its best, so the good work of Coto, Sussmann, the Reeves-Stevenses and whoever else brought fresh creative juices into the show would have continued in a potential fifth season.
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  #16  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtWalking View Post
I have to agree with Enterprise. It was a good series by the end of season 4 and was doing some really good story telling. So...what...they did a two episode homage to TOS? There are 20 other episodes that were pretty good that year.

It started off VERY blah and progressively started finding it's footing. I think by the time it hit season 4, it was working well. That's got a lot to do with Manny running the show during seasons 3 & 4, I think.

Voyager was just AWFUL. The stories...the lack of character development...the constant use of deus ex machina... The last three seasons were "The Doctor & Seven of Nine Show" and it was boring. It had SO MUCH potential, and it was just wasted.

As big of a jerk as he has been, many of Robert Beltran's criticisms of the show are spot on, sadly.

Unfortuantlly Voyager was more often Smarter than Enterprise.
Enterprise was and odd confluence of Voyager and DS9. The shows never got any more intelligent than the events themselves....alot like the Voyager 2 parters. They focused on the drama too much. Alot like DS9.

Someone said it got back to the exploration of TOS. That's utterly false.
It wasn't scientificly engaging for a premise of space exploration. This would be the first time that Man could travel these sort of distances. Instead of exploring black holes for the first time, instead of discovering anti matter nebulas, rifts, dark matter, MAKING first contacts as they said they did more of than any one in history at that point, they went political.

Even worse they went into a war scheme, AGAIN, DS9, had human/vulcan relationship sex, a baby instead of focusing on EARTH, who was supposed to be recovering from upheaval. It turned into a Space Opra and the drama wasn't even riveting or ground breaking. They did nothing to attache you to these characters.

It was clear they didn't know what they were doing with those characters, in ENT. Voyager, they stuck to the characters' bible. They changed very little, the ship changed very little, but theres a concept you're missing in VOY. The show was about family. And that family always came together. They supported eached other and got themselves home, it was at the cost of being boring because the situations did get more indept than enter bad guy, exit bad guy. They could have used a little more change.

But Enterprise...mediocre not just in plot movement like Voyager but all the way around. FX, writting, ACTING....good lord acting was mediocre, parched, dry. At least there was Mulgrew , Picardo and Ryan. ENT...just what...Bakula and his fist pumping, eyes on the floor tantrums? Trips Southern acsent isn't acting. And who is Mayweather? All he ever played was a helmsman, I go down the list and the ENT characters are flat poorly developed.

You can't accuse Voyager characters of being poorly developed only that they didn't change much from begining to end.

Voyager Cast


I mean how long were they going to focus on Tpol Trip and Archer? Trek has progressed along way from the Triad of TOS.

Phlox, Hoshi, Mayweather.... just a three big Ole' snooze buttons in the show. I'm just not for giving a show more time to bore me, apparently Paramount felt the same way. No SHOW of Trek has gotten worse reviews from the fans than Star Enterprise.
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  #17  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
Concerning ENT, I think there is little disagreement among us Trekkers that the fourth season of ENT was by far its best, so the good work of Coto, Sussmann, the Reeves-Stevenses and whoever else brought fresh creative juices into the show would have continued in a potential fifth season.
They went back to the Old Trek to get fans. The stories improved because of them but they weren't drawing in any non Trek fans and they had burned half of the other Trek fans.

Talk of ending this series started as early as Season 2.
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Old 04-23-2009, 09:19 AM
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It was clear they didn't know what they were doing with those characters, in ENT. Voyager, they stuck to the characters' bible. They changed very little, the ship changed very little, but theres a concept you're missing in VOY. The show was about family. And that family always came together. They supported eached other and got themselves home, it was at the cost of being boring because the situations did get more indept than enter bad guy, exit bad guy. They could have used a little more change.

But Enterprise...mediocre not just in plot movement like Voyager but all the way around. FX, writting, ACTING....good lord acting was mediocre, parched, dry. At least there was Mulgrew , Picardo and Ryan. ENT...just what...Bakula and his fist pumping, eyes on the floor tantrums? Trips Southern acsent isn't acting. And who is Mayweather? All he ever played was a helmsman, I go down the list and the ENT characters are flat poorly developed.

You can't accuse Voyager characters of being poorly developed only that they didn't change much from begining to end.
Actually, I can...because that's exactly my point!

I said there was a "lack of character development." From the first episode to the last the Voyager characters were the same exact people for all intents in purposes. They didn't grow an iota. Ergo, no character development.

The majority of characters on Voyager were wasted because there was no evolution. The show and crew had so much potential, and it NEVER lived up to it. Not even close. I didn't miss the concept that the VOY crew was a family. Even members of a family evolve. Hell, look at TNG. Those characters evolved over the span of the series and they were very much a family.

Bob Picardo was absoutely the best actor on VOY. Jeri Ryan couldn't act her way out of a paper bag if she were following signs to the exit. She was eye candy and that's about all.

Enterprise, as poorly as it started off DID improve and it DID have character development. I'm not saying it's the best Star Trek series, I'm just saying that it wasn't the same show it was when it premiered. I think that's thanks in large part to the change in show runners and the additions to the writing/production team.
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  #19  
Old 04-23-2009, 09:38 AM
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They went back to the Old Trek to get fans. The stories improved because of them but they weren't drawing in any non Trek fans and they had burned half of the other Trek fans.

Talk of ending this series started as early as Season 2.
I referred to the topic of this thread which is which series would have benefitted from an additional season, not which is my favourite series and which is not.
For example, I probably enjoy TNG most of all Trek series but its last season was not especially good, so an eighth seasons might have been even worse.
TOS and ENT got cancelled partly because of network policy, e.g. bad airing slots, so unlike the three series which ran for full seven years, both had still stories to tell.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:26 AM
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Actually, I can...because that's exactly my point!

I said there was a "lack of character development." From the first episode to the last the Voyager characters were the same exact people for all intents in purposes. They didn't grow an iota. Ergo, no character development.
Okay then let me change my definition of character development to yours.
Voyager's characters did not change or develop but they were very well defined which is likely why they didn't change.
Quote:

The majority of characters on Voyager were wasted because there was no evolution. The show and crew had so much potential, and it NEVER lived up to it. Not even close. I didn't miss the concept that the VOY crew was a family. Even members of a family evolve. Hell, look at TNG. Those characters evolved over the span of the series and they were very much a family.
I felt Kim was the one character young enough to change and he didn't but everyone else was older and set in they're ways. You're right members of families change but it's human nature and oddly enough the nature of everything to resist change. I'm not saying that you're not correct that they didn't change. But did they really need to?

Deep Space Nine Characters.


Quote:
Bob Picardo was absoutely the best actor on VOY. Jeri Ryan couldn't act her way out of a paper bag if she were following signs to the exit. She was eye candy and that's about all.
I comepletely disagree. She did a great job and both she and Mulgrew won a Hugo Award for the role so it's well recognize. Maybe you didn't find it energizing.

Quote:
Enterprise, as poorly as it started off DID improve and it DID have character development. I'm not saying it's the best Star Trek series, I'm just saying that it wasn't the same show it was when it premiered. I think that's thanks in large part to the change in show runners and the additions to the writing/production team.
Show me where. I wasn't into the series like you were.
Out of all the snooze buttons on that show Phlox had the most personality but his character was still very flat as opposed to very very very flat Mayweather and Hoshi. They're acting didn't point to anything more than what they showed to be and the story didn't do much with them all four seasons.

They wasted two season with them.
The Thrid season was about the Time War.
The Fourth was the final progression of many of the characters.

I don't see what you see.

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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I referred to the topic of this thread which is which series would have benefitted from an additional season, not which is my favourite series and which is not.
For example, I probably enjoy TNG most of all Trek series but its last season was not especially good, so an eighth seasons might have been even worse.
TOS and ENT got cancelled partly because of network policy, e.g. bad airing slots, so unlike the three series which ran for full seven years, both had still stories to tell.
My Teacher told me that I had alot of potential. I smiled at that.
Then he told me that just means I hadn't done anything.
He said, "Michaeux, what you deserve is based on what you've done."
Getting a second chance isn't based on your potential. It's mercy because you wouldn't have needed a second chance if you had simply done right with the first chance. If you had done right you deserve a reward.

So from this point of view I say failure doesn't deserve a second chance. I mercy would be wasted on series that was so flagrantly against the others from the outset.

The only way I could justify a second chance is because something just had to told. Like the Romulan War, the Birth of the Federation etc. We could do that in movies or mini series. But a series is about the characters not the evnts.
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