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  #11  
Old 04-12-2009, 01:28 PM
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Help Somalia and the Somali people yes, but not the Pirates or anyone who supports them. The Pirates chose to commit those crimes, they chose that path instead of appealing for aid by peaceful means. I'm no authority on the Somali Government, but if they're any kind of responsible government, they should have tried to put a stop to this, or at the very least, asked the U.N. or some other national organization, to help them deal with it.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2009, 01:35 PM
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There is still no need to celebrate the death of anyone, especially not of poor people who have little alternative besides becoming thieves.

A neighbourhood is safe when the people who live there are well off, not when it is merely intensely covered by the police. Same applies for the world, if we wanna make the world a safer place, let's help poor people. It's not like we who live in paradise compared to people in many African countries cannot afford it, not to mention that nation building is a bit cheaper than maintaining a large military.
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  #13  
Old 04-12-2009, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
There is still no need to celebrate the death of anyone, especially not of poor people who have little alternative besides becoming thieves.

A neighbourhood is safe when the people who live there are well off, not when it is merely intensely covered by the police. Same applies for the world, if we wanna make the world a safer place, let's help poor people. It's not like we who live in paradise compared to people in many African countries cannot afford it, not to mention that nation building is a bit cheaper than maintaining a large military.
Celebrate their deaths no, I never said that. But would I shed a bitter tear for them? No, I won't do that either, they did the crime, now they've done the time. I will celebrate the survival of that brave merchant Captain, and his crew, and the fact that our Navy is still protecting us and our citizens on the high seas.
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2009, 02:06 PM
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I have no problem with that, except the pathos and "our". As Trekkies we know that the world will only become a better place if we think and care about all six or seven human beings and not merely about those living in the same country we live in.
Perhaps it is simply a basic difference between the US and Europe: African poverty is much closer here, people from Africa cross the Mediterranean all the time. Helping them to build decent and thriving countries is the only long-run solution to the underlying problem. Piracy and migrating to Europe are only symptoms.
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  #15  
Old 04-12-2009, 04:41 PM
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Default Shiver me timbers !

To lighten this up a bit, I have just stumbled about a fascinating article from an economics professor who has written a book about pirates, not modern but "classical" eighteenth century ones.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=102961315

His basic thesis is that this seemingly bunch of anarchistic thieves have created ahead of its time democratic rules, which e.g. included elected leaders, forbid discrimination and provided social insurance in case a pirate was injured. Progressive self-organization out of chaos so to say.
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  #16  
Old 04-12-2009, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
Help Somalia and the Somali people yes, but not the Pirates or anyone who supports them. .
It's impossible to differentiate between the two! You would be in a situation where your enemy could be right behind you and you would never know it. In these small communities where the profits from piracy are shared (probably to a small degree) the population actually thinks of the pirates as heroes. We would need to improve the quality of life for every Somali before the communities would even think out about helping find the pirates. Does that sound familiar?
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Last edited by MrQ1701 : 04-12-2009 at 05:49 PM.
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  #17  
Old 04-12-2009, 06:00 PM
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I really hate the fact that our school mascot is a pirate...
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  #18  
Old 04-12-2009, 06:37 PM
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I really hate the fact that our school mascot is a pirate...
Really? Come one!! Don't get overly serious with things like that. My high school's mascot was, and still is, a Sundevil. There are religious groups that are always trying to have it changed because they see it as honoring Satan, or some other idiotic argument. I know sometimes other schools seem to have "cooler" mascots, but don't let that bother you. Be glad your not a "Cow" or something like that!

Sorry to get off subject, AGAIN!
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  #19  
Old 04-12-2009, 06:44 PM
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LOL! I dont Care. Our pirate has a beard, and is at least is not from Somalia.
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  #20  
Old 04-12-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
To lighten this up a bit, I have just stumbled about a fascinating article from an economics professor who has written a book about pirates, not modern but "classical" eighteenth century ones.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=102961315

His basic thesis is that this seemingly bunch of anarchistic thieves have created ahead of its time democratic rules, which e.g. included elected leaders, forbid discrimination and provided social insurance in case a pirate was injured. Progressive self-organization out of chaos so to say.
The Pirate's Code isn't particularly surprising, though I can see how they could be surprising considering the Hollywood pirate image that has been around for so many decades. In fact a lot of them stem from the regulations governing privateering, which was nothing more than legalized state sponsored piracy. It can be said that the pirates codes were probably more equitable than the articles of privateergin. Three such codes still exist largely intact. They are the articles of: Bartholomew Roberts, Captain John Phillips, and Edward Low and George Lowther. Henry Morgan's code is supposed to also have still survived but it is largely incomplete. Signing the code wasn't always voluntary. Threat of death or tortue was occasionally used by pirates to get recruits to sign. However, in some cases, recruits actually asked the crew to pretent to force them to sign. This was because a signature on a pirates code could often be self-incriminating should one be captured and tried for piracy. This is also why few copies of such codes still exist. If a pirate ship was about to be captured, it was common to burn or throw the code overboard to get rid of the evidence. People with certain important maritime skills such as carpenters and navigators were more likely to sign under duress.

Some of the articles are quite harsh, as they list offenses that were to be punished by death right on the spot. However, others do prescribe punishment decided upon by the captain and the majority of the crew. As the article that Horatio posted states, even proper conduct toward women is also touched upon in some of the articles. In fact article 9 of John Phillips's articles states that, "If at any time you meet with a prudent Woman, that Man that offers to meddle with her, without her Consent, shall suffer present Death." Retribution for breaking the rules on a pirate shop were not necessarily any less harsh than on a contemporary navy or merchant ship, but chances are if a person was to be flogged, hung, keel hauled, etc, it was at least something that was democratically decided.

Variations of such codes of conduct are really a fairly old maritime tradition. While life on naval vessels of the time were hardly democratic, but the need to treat the crew with respect and equality wasn't lost to some of the best naval minds such as Horatio Nelson and John Paul Jones. In fact there is actually a story of Nelson visiting a warship where the crew mutinied against their tyranical captain and wouldn't let the captain on the ship. The story goes that after Nelson got the captain back on the ship, he then told the crew to let him know if the captain were to mistreat them again.

It all stems from the fact that you're on a ship in cramped quarters for weeks or months on end, with the same people 24/7. Such codes really were a necessity to maintain order and professionalism on ships be they civilian, pirate, or military. Since pirate vessels were not subject to the rules and regulations governing naval vessel or any other established rules, another system to maintain discipline was necessary. Not to mention it was also important to keeping sailors. It's not exactly easy to run a ship when each time you return to port, a lot of crew members decide to sign on to a different ship. Any captain that did not see the wisdom of such equitable treatment would more than likely risk a mutiny, such as on the 32-gun frigate, HMS Hermione.

For those that have worked on a ship before, you can probably understand it when I say that it is the little things that can really make the cruise a peaceful one or one filled with a lot of shenangans. I've been on a cruise where one or more people were chronically late for watch among other things. And when yours truly misses dinner and/or breakfast because Johnny come lately doesn't show up to watch on time, you'd better watch out. I know where your stateroom is and I know what bunk you're sleeping in. Chances are, I probably also know your bunkmate too.

So basically setting up some kind of equitable system of conduct is actually something that is and always has been important on a ship to begin with.
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Last edited by Akula2ssn : 04-12-2009 at 10:05 PM.
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