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  #121  
Old 04-06-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
That's the trouble... the Paramount execs are worried that adding GLBT characters would cause the fans to "squick" and they'd tune out. (Which as we know, is utter BS.) We didn't tune out because of Capt Jack on Torchwood, and we didn't tune out of Farscape because of Chiani. It's just plain ol' cowardice on their parts.
Of course you and like-minded fans didn't tune out, because you want to see this on screen. No studio is worried about audiences who support GLBT tuning out because such characters appear in shows. It's those who DON'T support GLBTs who will tune out.

If we didn't live in a society where the antis outnumbered the pros, then the Iowa law just passed wouldn't even be news. We're not there yet, sadly.

Quote:
As it is, a good fraction of Trek fandom (and the viewing public in general, perhaps as high as 10%) is being left out in the cold.
You're asking corporations to support the 10% and risk losing 20%? Sorry, cowards with an eye on the bottom line will rarely ever buck the odds. But if a larger portion of the straight audience supported GLBTs in life, let alone on television, then the odds would reverse. We're not there yet and there are parties actively ensuring that tide doesn't turn as soon as it should. As you can see from such laws, there's 10% of the population who are missing out on much more than their fair share of TREK representation. It's not up to TREK to change that, it's up to us all.
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  #122  
Old 04-06-2009, 10:45 AM
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Mission,

The thing I've been saying here... several times now... is that Trek is no longer the pioneer, when it comes to having this sort of diversity in their characters. Other shows have done it already. (Farscape, Firefly, Torchwood, Dr. Who, etc.) NOW, the question is: why does Trek continue to ignore this issue, and this faction of it's fandom?

Star Trek is beginning to look like "The United Federation of Focus on the Family." With our intolerant captain, James T. Dobson... (if you don't know the reference, it's easy enough to look up via Google. keywords: James Dobson, Focus on the Family, Colorado Ammendment #2)

Seriously, this has long since gone beyond a mere oversight. Now it's an embarassment. An embarassment that is starting to carry the stink of bigotry with it. Soon, if this policy continues, it'll become obvious that Paramount, and whomever is in charge of the Trek franchise these days, is DELIBERATELY avoiding the GLBT issue. If so, there can be only one reason for that, in light of the fact that OTHER sci fi shows have already blazed a trail for it, and weren't harmed in their ratings in the least... (Several have been cancelled, yes, but it wasn't because of their having gay characters.)
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  #123  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:18 PM
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[quote=FanWriter45;169528]
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Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
You answered the question yourself, Fan -- because TOS aired in an era of counter-culture movement, rebellion and even revolution in social terms. Many people were open to change, new ideas, the social blending of races, the emergence of equal rights for women, etc. TOS was a reflection of its time and thus included blacks and women as equals in its vision of the future beyond the pioneering turmoil of the 1960s.
quote]


Actually, Trek aired with a multi racial crew in spite of the networks attempts to cast the show "sensibly." NBC wanted an all white, male cast, who smoked. (Thus enabling the show to draw the cigarette sponsors) As a result, we lost Majel's "Number One." It took Roddenberry and the heads of Desilu Studios backing him up to move that "TV reality" into something that looked more like what the future should be. I can understand their reluctance to do something about this back in the 1960's, those pre-Stonewall days GLBT were lucky if their existance was even mentioned, much less a positive portrayal being offered on a weekly series. But times have been a changin'. (to quote Dylan)

That's the trouble... the Paramount execs are worried that adding GLBT characters would cause the fans to "squick" and they'd tune out. (Which as we know, is utter BS.) We didn't tune out because of Capt Jack on Torchwood, and we didn't tune out of Farscape because of Chiani. It's just plain ol' cowardice on their parts.

As it is, a good fraction of Trek fandom (and the viewing public in general, perhaps as high as 10%) is being left out in the cold. In the future, "the human adventure is just beginning"...but only as long as you are straight.
you are correct. Trek was courageous in the '60's. it didn't follow a trend, it made it. remember just having Sulu and Uhura in the background was something, let alone be command staff.

but FanWriter45, you keep bringing up Torchwood and Harkness. not on your side there - that show is garbage and the characters promiscuous and unable to attain any dimension. better Trek producers be cowards than put on that drivel.
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  #124  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Odradek View Post
I know that your not homophobic.
But I'm a trekkie and a teuton, so nitpicking is my double nature.
It's in our contract to be a pain in the ***
what's a teuton?
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  #125  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
Disrespect is getting beaten up outside a bar because you came out the door holding your best friend's hand.
did that happen to you?
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  #126  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
I understand why you interpreted what i said this way. When I said "christians" I should have said "those Christians that still use religious ideology to deny equal rights to homosexuals". I figured that was implied by my previous posts. I was not accurate.

I did agree we were straying off point a bit, then I changed my mind. I don't see how we can discuss trek's lack of gay characters and NOT bring current religious intolerance into the equation.

Thanks for pointing out my post were confusing. I edited them to make make it a bit more clear.
that's cool.
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  #127  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
At that moment I realized people like myself, those that are accepting of people as they are, many of us are NOT vocal enough in our support of others. Those that deny equal rights to others and use religion as a weapon, they ARE very vocal, and will fight tooth and nail to keep our society in the dark ages when it comes to equality regardless of sexuality. I just needed to get that off my chest.
but will you do anything about it.
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  #128  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I doubt that today studio executives would oppose homosexual or bisexual main characters, so it seems that Berman never wanted any in the three Trek shows after TNG.
On the other hand, one has to give them credit for the few episodes likte "The Host" who dealt with sexuality and gender in general.
that was DS9, Berman was never around.
Frakes was very vocal in criticising Berman's handling of "The Outcast". they chickened out of casting a male actor as Soren. kissing a man was not something he'd look forward to, he said, but was willing because it would have been TNG's Kirk/Uhura moment.

Last edited by DammitJim : 04-06-2009 at 12:39 PM.
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  #129  
Old 04-06-2009, 12:41 PM
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TOS blazed a trail in the '60's.

DS9 made a small effort.

But TNG had no moments were they made a statement about anything.
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  #130  
Old 04-06-2009, 01:02 PM
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Exactly. Trek seems to be on a long, slow slide into mediocrity... (at least when it comes to social issues.)
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