[R23]

Yeah I said he can have his opinion but professional actors and actresses do not mouth off about films they are in, especially when it hasnt even come out yet. Plus there will always be other opportunities for them.

With Cawley this could be a great gateway into mainstream acting and if it was me I would try to embrace every aspect of the film and its direction, especially if im there at the invitation of the director!

You dont go to work and complain about everything, you just get on with it.

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by R23

With Cawley this could be a great gateway into mainstream acting and if it was me I would try to embrace every aspect of the film and its direction, especially if im there at the invitation of the director!

You dont go to work and complain about everything, you just get on with it.

Okay, then if I understand you correctly, we must embrace and promote the working culture of hypocricy, bootlicking and toadiness. Cawley has his oppinion and he happens to work for this movie - so what.

[Jed Starkiller]

Not to sound mean but really his opinion means no more ot me to than any one else's. He's just a fan like ALL of us. SO he doesn't like the ship a lot of the fans on here dont like the new E. He's entitled to his opinion.

[R23]

Botany Bay,

I actually couldnt care less about his opinion, I havent ever even watched those fan made series.

As for 'the working culture of hypocricy' I would rather be employed (especially in times like these) then moan about things. The way you described it blow it out of proportion, no one is asking you do be a push over but equally your not going to get anywhere in a career by mouthing off.

The difference between him and us is that he is getting paid and also he is representative of trek fans in this movie. We officially represent nothing.

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by Captain Pike

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/fo...p?topic=7530.0

I think this is wrong and what a slam after JJ Abrams gave him a cameo as a crewman in the movie. Cawley, who created NV and plays Kirk on the fan created series said it last year or in 07 after he had been given a sneak peak of the ship. It created a firestorm on the net and he had to explain himself over at Trekmovie.com in a guest article. After that Abrams recognized him on the Paramount lot and invited him to the set for his opinion of the sets, uniforms and then offered him a cameo. Cawley was delighted and so was all his fans. Now over at his site he slams the ship again in his forum. Click the link above and scroll down to post 13. I think he owes Abrams a apology because a lot of fans watch Phase 2, formally New Voyages and this could shine the ship in a negative light towards a lot of people who take Cawley serious. To me this is backstabbing

Cawleys words about the ship:
cawleyent Administrator
Posts: 535


Re: STAR TREK 11 New Enterprise
#13 on: March 10, 2009, 10:17:58 AM »
Quote I said it was ugly more than a year ago. I did not like it then, I do not like it now.

Originally Posted by Summer Storm Pictures

I have personally had a wide range of experience with STNV/STP2 since stumbling onto their project several years ago.

An ''outsider'' from start-to-finish, my ''outspoken'' nature often crossed the line there on the forums. I was regularly redacted, edited, deleted and lauded for my contributions. I always tried to moderate my passion with reason and thoughtfulness but passion sometimes carried the day. I was once banned only to be eventually re-invited by Cawley personally to ''come back.'' I was even invited to join the production team last fall. Unfortunately (perhaps fortunately) my prophetic side saw the approaching economic storm and I realized personally that this kind of indulgence and expense wasn't prudent. I wish I had been wrong but here we are and thankfully, and perhaps reluctantly, I didn't incur that expense. I'm sure it would have been a wonderful adventure.

Since then I pretty much left their forums and have ''moved on'' with only one recent post there in the last few months. I still occasionally peruse (''lurk'') there to follow things. My recent post there was actually a ''syndication'' of my ''Passing the Torch...'' post here--and it was in response to just what the starter of this thread/topic indicated about Cawley's seeming resign to STP2 (if not all Star Trek-inspired, fan-produced endeavors) becoming ''irrelevent'' as this new movie opens.

The hard simple truth is that while many of us, especially us ''first generation'' fans feel we ''own'' Star Trek in our hearts, it is a Copyrighted revenue-generating property in reality, and the true owners can do with it whatever they want--with good or bad results. Those are the facts, as hard as they may be to accept.

One must really give the powers that be (Paramount, CBS, Viacom etc.) great credit for such indulgence, patience and leeway over the decades since TOS. Fans have been given quite a bit of latitude to explore their own various fan-produced endeavors without being shut down by corporate hard-liners. I also have yet to see any criticism whatsoever coming from Paramount or CBS leveled at any of these--including STNV/P2.

Abrams himself has personally gone ''the extra mile'' and has never ever leveled any public criticism against other Star Trek projects, past, present or fan-produced. The reverse is certainly not true. Yeah, sure, some say, ''the big guys can afford to be magnanimous''--but I challenge anyone to find such a unique detente between Copyright owners and fans in ''the real world'' that matches this phenomenon.

In the end, one can't help feel some level of sympathy for Cawley. One doesn't often get to indulge one's self this way in life with one's passion. He has basically thrown his own money and life at a labor of love he doesn't even own--that has netted nothing more really than personal satisfaction--and one really good episode with ''World Enough and Time.'' I highly recommend it to any Star Trek fan of any generation. It is really well done. But everyone gets their fifteen minutes and I'm sure Cawley sees minute number fourteen ticking away with respect to his Star Trek journey. He and his ''band of brothers'' will surely cherish this adventure for the rest of their lives as they move on. Personally, I would love to see all this dedication, passion and production infrastructure channeled into something completely new and original, rather than based on something non-original.

I also feel deeply for all those involved who have likewise spent the last few years on this labor of love, spending their hard-earned money--not to mention blood, sweat and tears, precious vacation time and so on on the ''quest.'' I imagine there must be the occasional second thought in hindsight affecting some of them--thinking how it might be nice to have some of that money now.

It's hard to stop charging dragons and see windmills.

SummerStormPictures I feel as you do I read your post with regret. I too prefer to be out spoken rather than PC. I've never used an iota of profanity in my life but when I say that the new ship is ugly it's my proffessional and personal opinion and I know perfectly well that individuals on this forum and likely others viewing the forum can't stand my perspective of the new ship but CAWLEY and I have the exact same preception of the exterior of the ship as well as the bridge.

I look at the new Enterprise and I really hope it has a "good personality", because frankly it could use a brown paper bag. What's intresting is that Rick Sternback who supervised the TMP Enterprise, Defiant, Intrepid and the Galaxy said it looks very awkward from many of the Orthographic views. I quote "It doesn't flow very well", That's the guy that created all of the famed ships of Star Trek. I'm not saying you guys can't like it but realize that the designers look at it and think there is something wrong.

Now Church is a good artist. His artwork is great. He Did the stuff for Attack of the Clones. Frankly I'm AMAZED he was able to tone himself down to get even this close to Star Trek because he completely missed the mark for the Star Wars prequels, nothing he did looked liked anything that came before in the old trillogy but I suspect that has more to do with Lucas' direction than his ability to interpret as an artist.

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by R23

Botany Bay,

I actually couldnt care less about his opinion, I havent ever even watched those fan made series.

As for 'the working culture of hypocricy' I would rather be employed (especially in times like these) then moan about things. The way you described it blow it out of proportion, no one is asking you do be a push over but equally your not going to get anywhere in a career by mouthing off.

Yupp, fine. The point is that Cawley positioned himself as some form of "Guardian of truthfull TOS". Its a little silly, but hey, thats what he does with his fan movies. And thats why Abrams wanted him aboard. And he got him aboard, he got him to say a lot of nice things about this movie and if you read his interviews you will find how he promotes this new movie. But he didnt let himself get bribed. I personally find that a character trait that deserves to be praised, not ridiculed.

My personal view on this.

[Saquist]

Rick Sternbach

"I’ve seen a port side ortho[graphic] elevation, and I don’t have a problem with the mechanics of it, it’s the proportions and flows of the basic parts that look odd to me. Granted, no ship ever looks perfect in every ortho view, nor in every perspective view. We who have done this stuff in our sleep know that most vehicle and prop designs have their “best” faces. I’m not going to bore people with excerpts from my classical art and architecture books, though I will probably thumb through them here just to see if I can glean anything relevant. Like I said, I’ll wait to see how the film looks as a whole effort."

[R23]

Originally Posted by Botany Bay

Yupp, fine. The point is that Cawley positioned himself as some form of "Guardian of truthfull TOS". Its a little silly, but hey, thats what he does with his fan movies. And thats why Abrams wanted him aboard. And he got him aboard, he got him to say a lot of nice things about this movie and if you read his interviews you will find how he promotes this new movie. But he didnt let himself get bribed. I personally find that a character trait that deserves to be praised, not ridiculed.

My personal view on this.

I have no issue at all with what he can 'bring to the table', he is a great assest / consult to have to ensure that the film has elements faithful to TOS. But of course Abrams will also want to mix it up a bit to give it a new audience appeal. Im sure the Enterprise design has always been and will always be a hot topic!

[horatio]

Let him say how ugly he finds the new ship, that is his right. What I don't understand is his fear that interest in STNV will wane after this movie. People who are new to Trek will not bother to watch a fan series anyway, only people who have seen TOS who might stumble over STNV one day.
People like to be rich and famous. As Mr.Cawley is already moderately rich (as far as I know he put a few houndred thousands bucks in STNV), he obviously enjoys to be moderately famous. If he'd do Phase II mainly for himself and the folks who work on it, he would give a damn about how many people watch him playing Kirk.

If people pay me a favour, I usually return it at the first chance. If someone is more than gracious to you and includes you in his project, you should be inclusive as well. Tells you enough about Mr.Abrams and Mr.Cawley and about whom you'd prefer to have a beer with.

[I-Am-Zim]

I've enjoyed New Voyages for a long time, now. James Cawley is doing something that I wish I had the time and money to do. I din't see anything wrong with what he said in that post. The ship is ugly. He feels the same way I do about it. The uniforms are really cool, though. But why keep the uniforms almost identical to the TOS versions but change the ship so dramatically? Makes no sense. But that's the movie business. It seldon makes sense. Unfortunately, I think he may be correct about the fan-produced Trek going the way of the dodo after May 9th. If one doesn't subscribe to the alternate timeline approach, this movie will effectively erase the entire history of Star Trek, including all movies and spinoff series, from ENT forward. (I know, my DVD's won't self-destruct) They are starting anew. So Cawley's TOS based production will be totally meaningless since the events that STNV are based upon never happened. I have nothing but respect and admiration for Mr. Cawley and I wish him all the success in the world with STNV. Hopefully, it won't fade into obscurity after May 9th.