[starbase63]

Originally Posted by Damage75

I had forgotten about the "Ensign" comment....good memory!

How about this: Kirk is a lieutenant on the Farragut and is on Earth facing a court martial for his non-action in dealing with the dikironium cloud that kills his captain and 200 (I think?) crew members.

The result of the court martial is a reduction in rank. While on Earth, he gets involved with the Enterprise crew, hears about the Romulan ship, and has McCoy smuggle him aboard so he can prevent the ship from being destroyed.

This helps tie in canon (except that in TOS a review found that the loss of life aboard the Farragut was not Kirk's fault).

The problem with this is telling of the story aboard the Farragut...probably would take up too much time.

It would also mean REALLY sticking to canon...which I don't think is their intent once they get into the new timeline.

[dozey196]

As far as I'm aware in Trek World and in the mitilary World you dont need to hold the rank of captain to captain a ship. Even if you were still a cadet and placed in command you would then be referred to as captain.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Saquist

Intresting.

It's fact. You need replacment command personel.

[TJJones]

Originally Posted by dozey196

As far as I'm aware in Trek World and in the mitilary World you dont need to hold the rank of captain to captain a ship. Even if you were still a cadet and placed in command you would then be referred to as captain.

Yes, the commanding officer (who we informally refer to as "captain" or "skipper") of a ship need not be the rank of captain. President John Kennedy was a lieutenant when he was commanding officer the motor torpedo boat PT-109 on its fateful mission. The COs of modern U.S. Navy frigates and destroyers are often commanders in rank, as are COs of our fast-attack submarines. COs of the "patrol combatant" type ships are lieutenant commanders in rank.

The "buckle up" scene, though, shows Kirk wearing the rank of captain on his tunic, so I don't think the above applies to him (at least by that point in the movie)...of course, we really don't know the time frame between the main events of the movie and that particular scene; it could be a number of years later, for all we know.

Although, I would be a bit disappointed if he was an ensign fresh out of the academy and, within 6 months of the end of the movie, holds the rank of captain.

[Damage75]

There was a DS9 episode that showed this as well. I don't remember the name, but there was a Starfleet ship that had a crew of cadets and was captained by a cadet (I think it was the Valiant). It was a training ship that came under attack, and the senior officers were killed.Before the captain died he promoted a cadet to Captain. Anybody else remember this?

[TJJones]

Originally Posted by Damage75

Before the captain died he promoted a cadet to Captain. Anybody else remember this?

I remember the episode, but I don't think that really qualifies as a "promotion." The cadet was placed in temporary command by the dying commanding officer, but that just means that he was acting as the captain, rather than being assigned (by the officers with the actual authority to assign officers to their "permanent" positions) as commanding officer of the Valiant. I see it as a different situation.

[ash_scotland88]

Harry Kim is a captain on night shift- the episode with the AI missile.
I just can't remember if the girl on helm (can't remember her rank) refers to him as captain or not.

[Cannibal]

Originally Posted by vuedoc

I think anything is plausable at this point. The only real mystery is Kirk going from troublemaker to captain so quickly. It is very probable that the other characters were at the academy from an earlier time and that the Enterprise may not even be their first assignment. It is also conceivable that more qualified cadets are in receipt of higher ranks upon being commisioned i.e. Lieutenant J.G. or higher as opposed to just an Ensign. If McCoy joined Starfleet when he was older and already had been a practicing physician, he might have been commisioned as a Lieutenant Commander right from the start.

This is a good point about McCoy. The military does do this with doctors because good doctors are in demand. Rather than commission a young person and put them through medical school they commission experienced doctors at a higher pay grade. They usually start out as O3 or O4, which in the ST universe would translate to Lieutenant or Lt Commander.

[Damage75]

A friend and I were talking about this tonight...and he brought up a point I had forgotten about.

Isn't Saavik a Lieutenant-Junior Grade when she takes the Kobayashi Maru test in TWOK? And also refered to as a cadet?

And in TNG, Troi takes a version of the KM test when she has to choose to send Geordi into a no-win situation (called "the bridge officer's test"). At that time, she is a Lieutenant Commander.

So is it possible that Kirk (in the movie) may not be a true cadet, but maybe more of an officer who decides to go into command?

[starbase63]

Originally Posted by ash_scotland88

Harry Kim is a captain on night shift- the episode with the AI missile.
I just can't remember if the girl on helm (can't remember her rank) refers to him as captain or not.

He would be either the Officer of the Watch or the Officer of the Deck, not the Captain, if memory serves correctly.