[martok2112]

A very good analysis, JSnyder.

[JSnyder4]

*That doesn't sound as promising.*
The second episode was better than the pilot so there is still promise.
It feels as though this show may take several episodes to find some legs.
Eliza's last TV series Tru Calling floundered around a bit trying to find a direction. When it became focused on guardian angel vs the reaper it had somewhere to go and was a big improvement; unfortunately a little too late to save the series.

Dollhouse seems to have a focus in mind but is being played as a "B" story at the moment. The "A" stories are really light exposition with a little action thrown in to justify it. "A" story being the emergence of the original personality through episode experiences and faulty? memory wipes. "B" story being the conflict with "Alpha" and its origin. I'm almost convinced that this is a backwards approach for this series, especially as a first season. Alpha conflict might work better as main story with the awakening of Echo as a side-effect of over-use of the imprinting process in both the commercial applications and the Alpha conflict. So far the FBI angle seems to be too x-filesy really with the "I want to believe" co-worker ridicule.

But again, I'm willing to see how it plays out.

*So how does the new episode format work, isn't this one of the shows FOX is piloting with less advertising time and longer episode times?*
Yes, it is. Fringe was another one doing that as well.

*Does the extra time help or hinder the plots?*
I'm not sure the extra few minutes makes or breaks any plots or even how that would be accomplished. It's just a few more minutes of story ability.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by JSnyder4

*That doesn't sound as promising.*
The second episode was better than the pilot so there is still promise.
It feels as though this show may take several episodes to find some legs.
Eliza's last TV series Tru Calling floundered around a bit trying to find a direction. When it became focused on guardian angel vs the reaper it had somewhere to go and was a big improvement; unfortunately a little too late to save the series.

Dollhouse seems to have a focus in mind but is being played as a "B" story at the moment. The "A" stories are really light exposition with a little action thrown in to justify it. "A" story being the emergence of the original personality through episode experiences and faulty? memory wipes. "B" story being the conflict with "Alpha" and its origin. I'm almost convinced that this is a backwards approach for this series, especially as a first season. Alpha conflict might work better as main story with the awakening of Echo as a side-effect of over-use of the imprinting process in both the commercial applications and the Alpha conflict. So far the FBI angle seems to be too x-filesy really with the "I want to believe" co-worker ridicule.

But again, I'm willing to see how it plays out.

I guess the mantra is never write off Whedon or assume you know where he's going with you. I follow what you're saying about the plot structure and would tend to agree. Time will tell though.

*So how does the new episode format work, isn't this one of the shows FOX is piloting with less advertising time and longer episode times?*
Yes, it is. Fringe was another one doing that as well.

*Does the extra time help or hinder the plots?*
I'm not sure the extra few minutes makes or breaks any plots or even how that would be accomplished. It's just a few more minutes of story ability.[/quote]

I was hoping maybe it allowed for a little more plot development or characters moments. I awlays think that when run times get reduced, that kind of stuff sometimes gets put to one side to focus on getting to then finale of each episode.

[JSnyder4]

*I guess the mantra is never write off Whedon or assume you know where he's going with you. I follow what you're saying about the plot structure and would tend to agree. Time will tell though.*
There really isn't much to a Whedon plot in any series. They're pretty much straight-forward. His strength is in witty dialogue and characterization, not intricate plots.
No Buffy, Angel or Firefly plot was ever a mind-bender. Even his movie plots are pretty cherry-vanilla and not twizzler-twist; Toy Story, Alien 4, Titan A.E., Serenity. His comic book plots aren't masterpieces of twisty-goodness either; see Astonishing X-Men.

He has given it [intrigue and intricate plot] a try in the Buffy season 8 comics but so far (after over 20 some issues) it feels more seat-of-the-pants-make-it-up-as-you-go-along-and-have-other-writers-in-for-filler-issues-to-make-it-seem-more-extensive-and-important writing. This is also not being helped in that the scripting is being done for trade paperback purposes (4 issues of a story with back-up filler to make the 5 issue conversion to TPB page count) rather than story flow. Frankly, the ongoing story has gotten a bit stale in Buffy season 8; it just meanders.

At $3 an issue (non-TPB) the value is truly in question; especially since purchasing a comic book is one of the worst mainstream bang-for-your-buck entertainment venues you could have. 20+ issues/$60+ and it feels like it hasn't really done much at all.

I like a lot of Whedon's work, but not for the reasons many other of his fans have.
A comparison to Roddenberry is a good analogy; an idea man with a few strong points but gets credited and deified as being a god unjustly.

[kevin]

Originally Posted by JSnyder4

*I guess the mantra is never write off Whedon or assume you know where he's going with you. I follow what you're saying about the plot structure and would tend to agree. Time will tell though.*
There really isn't much to a Whedon plot in any series. They're pretty much straight-forward. His strength is in witty dialogue and characterization, not intricate plots.
No Buffy, Angel or Firefly plot was ever a mind-bender. Even his movie plots are pretty cherry-vanilla and not twizzler-twist; Toy Story, Alien 4, Titan A.E., Serenity. His comic book plots aren't masterpieces of twisty-goodness either; see Astonishing X-Men.

He has given it [intrigue and intricate plot] a try in the Buffy season 8 comics but so far (after over 20 some issues) it feels more seat-of-the-pants-make-it-up-as-you-go-along-and-have-other-writers-in-for-filler-issues-to-make-it-seem-more-extensive-and-important writing. This is also not being helped in that the scripting is being done for trade paperback purposes (4 issues of a story with back-up filler to make the 5 issue conversion to TPB page count) rather than story flow. Frankly, the ongoing story has gotten a bit stale in Buffy season 8; it just meanders.

At $3 an issue (non-TPB) the value is truly in question; especially since purchasing a comic book is one of the worst mainstream bang-for-your-buck entertainment venues you could have. 20+ issues/$60+ and it feels like it hasn't really done much at all.

I like a lot of Whedon's work, but not for the reasons many other of his fans have.
A comparison to Roddenberry is a good analogy; an idea man with a few strong points but gets credited and deified as being a god unjustly.

I suppose indeed everyone's mileage may vary depending on what they like about their stuff.

I guess Whedon would be the first to admit that he's not twisty as such (I think in commentaries and in panel discussions about his shows he has joked about 'inventing' the 'plot twist' and it's his dialogue that works better but he's very interested in his characters and what happens to them as people within the scenarios in which he places them.

[Jed Starkiller]

Originally Posted by omegaman

Is there any fan based series out there on the net. If not, it would be a great challenge.

If your asking about a Firefly fan show theres one that I know in the works called To the Black. I beleive.

[kevin]

So, now it's been running a few weeks (I can't access HULU etc) how is Dollhouse shaping up?

[Jed Starkiller]

Its not bad its not quite got the same feel. Drama/Humor as the other Whedon shows but its been interesting.

[kevin]

Any word yet on a renewal for a second season or production of more episodes for season 1?

[Jed Starkiller]

Im not sure about a season two as far as I know its still running for season one.